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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2013-09-12 23:16
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 22:54, Talien wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 22:45, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
There's a base detection value that's dependent on distance where you'll be detectable and targetable regardless of EW.
With K'Luth weapon ranges being that short, no amount of ECM will matter as they attempt to get into firing range. Cloak is still the de facto modus operandi to approach a human enemy.
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It's 20 GU per 1 GU of hitbox size which is rather tiny for anything smaller than a Cruiser.
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Yes, but ECM also has to cover the ship's natural positive sig. It's not completely zero sum yet.
Anyway my point being... with weaker armor/hull, higher energy drain, shorter ranged weapons, the only thing that a K'Luth vessel can do is to get into optimal firing range before decloaking. There's no other real viable tactic that makes sense, really.
Without beating around the bush, and the invariable dead horse, ECCM and ECM seems fine as they are in beta. No need to disable ECM in cloak.
If you do want to explore that, then there should be mitigating factors in favor of the lobsters.
Eg: (Either/Or options)
- Standard ECM has no effect on cloaked ships. Only targettable ECM does.
- Or Bring back cloak drain to what it is now in release
- Or reduce cloak energy drain to the point that you can travel up to 50% max speed without drain while in cloaked
But why mess with something that already works well? You'll only further complicate things.
Right now in Beta, if you pull out an EW ship to find me, I'll pull out an EW ship to level the playing field. From there on, let's see which side will stack EW to get an advantage.
But the advantage comes at the cost of losing a usable combat ship for every EW ship you add on.
It's all good.
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2013-09-12 23:19
Anyone know the current hitbox radius for each hull? lol
I agree with Kenny the ewar triangle feels pretty solid this time around. Lets see how it plays out.
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2013-09-12 23:21
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 21:09, Talien wrote:
Have you tried using ECM instead of cloak in beta, and just use cloak for mid battle repositioning? I haven't yet myself but it's on my list of things to do now that I can actually play. With the new detection mechanics it seems like that may be a viable option for luth.
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Ent and I did something like this a couple days ago with Mauler frigates. Works marverlously. We covered each other our ECM so we spent most of the time at -40 sig, and could go full speed mashing spacebar without hitting positive sig.
The two of us took out a Strike Carrier like this with little difficulty.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-09-12 23:26
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 23:21, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
Ent and I did something like this a couple days ago with Mauler frigates. Works marverlously. We covered each other our ECM so we spent most of the time at -40 sig, and could go full speed mashing spacebar without hitting positive sig.
The two of us took out a Strike Carrier like this with little difficulty.
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Nice.
But the ICC didn't field their own EW ships, or fast small craft to counter you, did they? The story might have been much different if they had. And the tide could have even turned against you had they put out an EW ship.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-09-13 01:44
It's a bit of a problem that the humans have no effective EWar/Combat frigate.
The UGTO get a EWar/Minelayer, and the ICC get an EWar/Cannon.
In the case of maulers, you'll need two players to detect them, and a third to fight them.
If K'Luth decide to pull maulers in large numbers, what can you do?
Assault and Stealth corvettes? Get close and nail them? What about their cloak? Even if you do close in, they can cloak before detected.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-09-13 03:07
The thing is, given the mentalities of most K'Luth players, the majority will be using Cruisers once they realize that dreads are harder to use than in 1.6.
Some may downsize to a dessie. But few will go down all the way to a Mauler unless they're volunteering for EW duty.
K'Luth players tend to favor doing the most damage in the least amount of time then jumping out before rinsing and repeating.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-09-13 03:08 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-09-13 06:28
Quote:
On 2013-09-13 01:44, Fluttershy wrote:
It's a bit of a problem that the humans have no effective EWar/Combat frigate.
The UGTO get a EWar/Minelayer, and the ICC get an EWar/Cannon.
In the case of maulers, you'll need two players to detect them, and a third to fight them.
If K'Luth decide to pull maulers in large numbers, what can you do?
Assault and Stealth corvettes? Get close and nail them? What about their cloak? Even if you do close in, they can cloak before detected.
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Don't forget the Mauler is a T3 ship. And yeah, like Kenny said, most luth players won't want to fly a Frigate even if it is more effective than some of the Destroyers.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2013-09-13 19:31
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 23:26, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 23:21, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
Ent and I did something like this a couple days ago with Mauler frigates. Works marverlously. We covered each other our ECM so we spent most of the time at -40 sig, and could go full speed mashing spacebar without hitting positive sig.
The two of us took out a Strike Carrier like this with little difficulty.
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Nice.
But the ICC didn't field their own EW ships, or fast small craft to counter you, did they? The story might have been much different if they had. And the tide could have even turned against you had they put out an EW ship.
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to be more precise, iw as flying the strike carrier, since its was the only Ewar combat ship available, wich actually had very littfe effect on the maulers. i coudl try to feild a cruiser, but i failed to find one that had ewar and any sort of combat capablities. pretty much same goes for frigates, and dessy dont get any ewar
Also it was 2 vs 1
also their maulers used ECM boost enhancers, wich made the strike carrier's ammount of ECCM not enough for 1 ship
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2013-09-13 19:34 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-09-14 03:39
OVERDRIVE!
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-09-14 08:13
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 10:29, Trader of Destiny wrote:
also, someone scrap the Makkar ship booster enh off the store. theyre OP already, and will only become more OP when 5 non-EWar scouts will be unable to damage 1 EWar scout.
did i mention targeted EWar is very balanced?
[ This Message was edited by: Trader of Destiny on 2013-09-12 10:31 ]
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Makkars have been limited to 1 per ship now.
-Sheraton
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-09-14 09:57
What are the important issue that need tested now? Currently, I'm waiting all ships out to have a general look.
I personally hope there will be anti-sensor platform. Planet no longer destroys missle so it doesn't matter whether you have positive or negative signature.
[ This Message was edited by: DiepLuc on 2013-09-14 12:43 ]
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-09-14 12:56
Quote:
On 2013-09-14 09:57, DiepLuc wrote:
What are the important issue that need tested now? Currently, I'm waiting all ships out to have a general look.
I personally hope there will be anti-sensor platform. Planet no longer destroys missle so it doesn't matter whether you have positive or negative signature.
[ This Message was edited by: Sheraton *XO* on 2013-09-14 12:56 ]
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Yes it does matter if you have positive or negative signature primarily because it makes you harder to target and hit. Secondary affects of negative signature and positive signature include: The hiding of fighters and missiles, and the energy drain on K'luth.
-Sheraton
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-09-14 19:43
Once again, the ICC beam? cruiser has OVERDRIVE!
90s iirc recharge, 40gu/s jumpdrive with 1680gu max range and no fuel. Pretty sweet.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2013-09-15 00:19
devs, i so very very much hate you for stealing my ideas from my head....
good work on the boost attack overdrive engine, really liking the implementation of it, where you can chase down frigates escaping from interdictors or shorten the distance to other cruisers and dreads, evading significant counterfire while getting to their weak areas.
now make it so torpedo, missile and minelayer ships can fire a volley with increased AoE (blast attack)
and make it so cannon ships can fire 2 salvos in a short 5 seconds, for a cooldown of 3-4 salvos (burst attack)
you guys can read minds... awsum!
also, bug: overdrive is messing with the normal jump drive's functions in a bad way. the jump drive does not activate with J key, and shift+J activates the overdrive too, using the OD's fuel and cooldown with the JD's speed.
when OD has no fuel, shift+J starts and immediately stops the OD, restarting it's cooldown while JD remains statistically untouched.
[ This Message was edited by: Trader of Destiny on 2013-09-15 00:30 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-09-15 01:36
So, fighters balance right now
general consensus;
ICC get worst fighters but sneakiest launch platforms
UGTO are all-round best at fighters
K'luth get the best fighters with mediocre launch platforms
Thing with luth carriers: Cloak then retarget fighters for cloaky carrier.
I do not believe this is intentional but right now because of this Luth are by the far the best at fighters.
[ This Message was edited by: iwancoppa on 2013-09-15 02:47 ]
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