| Author |
[1.7] Beta Feedback |
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
|  Posted: 2013-09-02 17:37
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 16:51, Orkan ORP wrote:
|
I think the concern is that Transport, Mining, and PD would be too easy to farm.
I hope it's doable, though, and that ways exist to make sure the player is actually doing something useful, and not doing things for the sake of prestige.
For transports...
Exporting planets with high res could have a small prestige loss for withdrawing, and a small gain for offloading.
Importing planets with low res could have a large prestige loss for withdrawing, and a large gain for offloading.
This would allow transports to 'trade' by bringing resources where they are needed.
As for infantry, a planet capture should be awarded if your infantry are on the planet when it flips.
For miners...
Mining itself wouldn't earn prestige, but offloading it onto a planet which is importing and in need of resources would, but without the risk of laying down prestige to 'buy' resources from an exporter.
For PD...
This is a tough one, perhaps defender prestige should only be awarded when in the presence of allies, and only if the missile or fighter you PD was being fired at an ally, so you can't go lone-wolf and gain prestige by pissing off mine layers and missile AI, which serves no purpose.
Hope these are possible and not too hard to code...
There would need to be some safeguards in place to prevent someone from flipping a planet between Import/Export for the sake of just offloading what they just picked up and gaining prestige (Maybe price changes only take effect 5 minutes after you change it)
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-09-02 17:41 ]
_________________
|
Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-09-02 17:52
This thread may be in danger of getting off the point. I used transports as an example to highlight the fact that certain ships exist in game without a prestige reward for their role. This was initially to address a possible issue with PD escort ships not gaining prestige for the role they were intended which Ardex first raised. In current release an Escort Destroyer has Chemical Beam lasers which can be used for offensive as well as defensive purposes. Not so with the new 1.7 Pulse beams, these are purely defensive (they can be targetted and used offensively but the damage rendered makes for a rather pointless exercise).
Should farming be the issue there could be no prestige gain from Home faction servers. A small amount in Sagitarius and a slightly larger amount in a hostile server regarding resources and troops. These tasks could yield a very small amount of Prestige gain compared to supply or construction or combat at a compromise but is that really fair? I can just as easily go to some backwater system in my Home server and start spamming plats, tractoring them into planets and then repeating, surely that's farming prestige too?
If anything surely farming is a relative term? After all if I am in Kaus Borealis killing AI on a quiet night am I not farming AI?
Farming is not an easy job. There is a reason that Farmers worldwide in the real world have one of the highest suicide rates of all professions. It still takes time, effort, energy, money and so on to farm and the rewards are not always forthcoming. This translates into Darkspace as a mining ship or transport dropping off resources at a supply platform to keep it active has to undergo considerable risk at no reward. You are right, farming is exactly what it is. While all the Flyboys get all the girls the poor Logistics Divisions of the Three Great Navies put their lives on the line for absolutely no reward. Somethings gotta give.
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan ORP on 2013-09-02 18:40 ]
_________________
![Email Orkan [OO-XII]](http://www1.palestar.com/gamecq/phpBB/images/email.gif)
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-09-02 18:56
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 16:51, Orkan ORP wrote:
Ok so you are part of a group as a PD ship. You gain a bit of their prestige but what do they get from you, prestige from your jumps?
|
They get to continue gaining prestige from whatever it is they're doing because you're seeing to it that they are not blown to hell by missiles.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-09-02 19:13
While you're supporting them, yeah, you're letting them survive and have all the glory while you get a tiny little 5% off of whatever they all earn.
Same goes for EWar, both in detecting the enemy so they can be shot at, and hiding your allies so they can avoid being shot at.
Supports like PD and EWar could get something like
T1 PD or EWar (totalPrestigeEarned / groupSize)/1
T2 PD or EWar (totalPrestigeEarned / groupSize)/2
T3 PD or EWar (totalPrestigeEarned / groupSize)/3
So a T1 support would be getting the average of what each member in the group is making for themselves, and they wouldn't get more and more prestige for having a larger group.
Pure combat ships should have the same formula, but have a divisor of 15 or so on it.
Hope this makes sense, and yeah theres some potential for exploit so that would need to be dealt with by necessitating that you are near active group members. Also group members which are not participating will lower the shared prestige because they increase groupSize without contributing.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-09-02 19:15 ]
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-09-02 21:26
Questions:
1. Do you get pres for every unit of res mined with an extractor beam?
2. Do you get pres every time you drop troops on an enemy flagged planet?
3. Do you get pres every time your beam takes out an enemy missile or fighter?
Perhaps it's time to see if the above can be applied, if not already.
Potential exploits that I see:
1. Nothing really. If you're mining, then you're gonna have to put those resources somewhere soon, preferably on a friendly planet to benefit yourself.
Plus, you can't really just set the ship to mine on some super remote planet and then go to sleep and expect insane pres gains the next morning. The largest ships can only hold 5000 x 10 resource units at any one time. And that happens pretty fast too... inside 20 mins? If pres gains were to be set at 1 pres for every 5000 res mined, you'd only get 10 pres for a full load.
2. That's why you have to drop troops on an enemy planet to get pres. Otherwise you'd be picking up and dropping troops on your own planets for pres.
And if you're stupid enough to drop troops on an enemy rock, pick it up again, and drop + rinse/repeat, you're running the risk of getting your ass chewed out by Planet Def or an enemy ship. Or being reported by another player.
Maybe 1 pres per troop dropped on an enemy rock?
3. This should be limited to a small amount per missile/fighter destroyed, to ensure a reasonable by steady gain if the player chooses this role in a fighter/missile rich environment. Not really exploitable unless opposing teams are stat padding.
Perhaps 1 or 2 pres for every missile/fighter destroyed?
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-09-02 21:32 ]
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-09-03 02:35
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 18:56, Talien wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 16:51, Orkan ORP wrote:
Ok so you are part of a group as a PD ship. You gain a bit of their prestige but what do they get from you, prestige from your jumps?
|
They get to continue gaining prestige from whatever it is they're doing because you're seeing to it that they are not blown to hell by missiles.
|
That won't work with modern gamers.
_________________
|
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-09-03 05:52
The above scenarios given for prestige gain are extremely exploitable, and will not be added.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-09-03 07:10
Well, it would seem that Mining, Transporting, and PD will always be relegated to "do only if necessary" roles. Pres gains can't be directly given without being exploitable.
In short, no one will actively take up those roles unless there is an exigent need to, and someone in that group or team takes up the mantle to actually do it. To a lesser extent, supplying and building, which give some pres gains, will be somewhat similar.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-09-03 07:39
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 05:52, Pantheon wrote:
The above scenarios given for prestige gain are extremely exploitable, and will not be added.
|
Pres for mining or dropping troops on enemy planets is a bit much, yes. But with no direct reward for PD, Missiles quite possibly really will be the new "go to" weapon because you get next to nothing from running PD and almost nobody will want to do it. Yeah people can group, but thinking about it more, it's still not an attractive option since flying around watching missiles blow up and trying to avoid being blown up by them in return is not the most exciting thing to do.
Of course.....even if a separate stat for PD is added it doesn't have to be a 1-1 ratio as 1 pres per missile/fighter shot down is ludicrous. 0.1 or 0.01 even is more like it, meaning 10 or 100 missiles PDed per 1 point of pres.
We currently get pres for hitting enemies with Beacons. How is that any less exploitable given that you could ECM yourself and pelt AI with them for hours without getting shot at? Nobody exploits it like that because it's not worth doing, too much work for too little reward.
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 02:35, iwancoppa wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 18:56, Talien wrote:
They get to continue gaining prestige from whatever it is they're doing because you're seeing to it that they are not blown to hell by missiles.
|
That won't work with modern gamers.
|
Yes, I fully expect many people will be getting blown to hell by missiles and then bitching that nobody is PDing.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-09-03 10:15
Is mining underdog here?
Well, I bet there are situations where you can't get your dread out of sy due to tax transport. You will get extractor, jump to 1, 2, 3 planets to get 50 000 resource, and then unload them on the SY planet. But these 50k resource is unexpectedly vaporized as someone has new ship in launching queue from that SY. What will you say? "*u**!" of course.
Mining is easily to exploit. How about navigation? There is not much effort to jump millions gu in a small supply.
I don't ask for mining prestige but navigation prestige is hilarious.
_________________
|
Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2013-09-03 11:08
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 02:35, iwancoppa wrote:
That won't work with modern gamers.
|
I agree! That's why nobody plays as the Medic in TF2 or as the White Mage in Final Fantasy, or as the priest in WoW, or as the support in League of Legends or ..
_________________
|
Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2013-09-03 14:16
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 11:08, Fattierob wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 02:35, iwancoppa wrote:
That won't work with modern gamers.
|
I agree! That's why nobody plays as the Medic in TF2 or as the White Mage in Final Fantasy, or as the priest in WoW, or as the support in League of Legends or ..
|
*slowly raises hand*
I... I played as priest in WoW...
_________________
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2013-09-03 14:53
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 14:16, Cold Death wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 11:08, Fattierob wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 02:35, iwancoppa wrote:
That won't work with modern gamers.
|
I agree! That's why nobody plays as the Medic in TF2 or as the White Mage in Final Fantasy, or as the priest in WoW, or as the support in League of Legends or ..
|
*slowly raises hand*
I... I played as priest in WoW...
|
He was being sarcastic.
Every ship has at least two point defense for basic protection, and smaller ships can dodge. Really, missiles are only effective against the larger ships, which become extremely well protected with just one specialized ship.
And of course, missiles have their many drawbacks as well. They suck up a lot of energy to use and once you get inside their firing arc they become toothless.
Anyone really trying to go for a one size fits all ship is just going to find themselves outmanuevered. Thing we really need to consider bumping up the prestige for would be for bombing, transport, supply, and especially scouting. Scouting is going to be so important in this patch.
This is mostly because of just how easy you can use planets to hide fleets, you wont be able to just skim by and see everything. You're going to need to get really close if you are in a non-scouting ship. There are so many new facets to the combat that everyone is going to have to unlearn what they have learned.
-Ent
_________________
|
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-09-03 16:05
I don't see the concern of adding prestige gains to these things, let me explain.
Firstly, no matter how much PD or minning you do, it wont get you any closer to that platinum combat badge you need. Sure, grind all the way to CM, but you wont be able to use half the ships.
Secondly, all of it takes TIME. With properly adjusted prestige gains, it simply will not be worth it. Would you rather earn prestige by doing something fun and productive, or sitting in a back sector being useless?
"Hey, can you do PD for us? We're really getting beat up by these missiles."
"Nah, I'm just gonna do suicide attacks in my frigate to gain weapon and kamakazi prestige with no risk at all to myself besides a higher number of deaths. Ask me again later when the game provides incentive to do so"
_________________
|
Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2013-09-03 21:16
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 16:05, Fluttershy wrote:
I don't see the concern of adding prestige gains to these things, let me explain.
Firstly, no matter how much PD or minning you do, it wont get you any closer to that platinum combat badge you need. Sure, grind all the way to CM, but you wont be able to use half the ships.
Secondly, all of it takes TIME. With properly adjusted prestige gains, it simply will not be worth it. Would you rather earn prestige by doing something fun and productive, or sitting in a back sector being useless?
"Hey, can you do PD for us? We're really getting beat up by these missiles."
"Nah, I'm just gonna do suicide attacks in my frigate to gain weapon and kamakazi prestige with no risk at all to myself besides a higher number of deaths. Ask me again later when the game provides incentive to do so"
|
I could literally write a script or create a macro in less than 1 minute to press "U" to unload mined resources every x minutes and AFK it overnight. Same goes for loading and unloading troops on a planet.
[ This Message was edited by: Chewy Squirrel on 2013-09-03 21:16 ]
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
