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[1.7] Beta Feedback |
Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
|  Posted: 2013-09-01 15:24
So, by looking at the current Beta map, I'm getting the impression that Luth are getting royally screwed.
They've got Pirates and MI just 1 jump gate away from their home system. Will this be the case in release as well?
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2013-09-02 00:38
so what im gathering is people are gonna have to think before they leap in 1.7, or they will be dying alot... i like!
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2013-09-02 00:41
also one other thing, more of a request, is it possable to post the luth cloak changes on the dev log so other people who would, or might return with 1.7 know that there was changes made to luth cloak?
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-09-02 04:17
Quote:
On 2013-09-01 09:37, Jim Starluck wrote:
I'm going to adjust the equation so that Frigate missiles stay the same (because they need to reliably hit Cruisers, and that's a tricky proposition for any missile), but higher values increase by 15% of the square of the level, instead of 10%. That should give us:
Frigates: 0.5
Destroyers: 1.55
Cruisers: 2.9
Dreadnoughts: 4.55
Stations: 14.15
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If you're going to make missle less precise, then you also need to make cooldown faster 15% to compensate. A missed missle volley cause DPS halves! It's not simple 15% increased.
Players care a lot about missle presicion because it's actually the weapon to destroy 2 classes smaller in current! No joke. Everytime I'm in Support Station/Hive, I notice missle is the most frequent weapon that kills anything smaller than a dread. Since missle tracks target and moves at slower speed than core weapon, it's more reliable to self-detonate them.
Along with 250 000HP = 1 unit of mass, I think shield should add mass to the ship to make all factions fair. HP comparison: Organic < Shield < Standard. Regeneration comparison: Standard < Organic < Shield. Weight comparison: Shield < Organic < Standard. Shield is too good and every ICC has 4 shields. And ICC's advatage even expands more narrow when 8 Advanced Defense Upgrade roll in: 48% more HP and no mass penalty.
[ This Message was edited by: DiepLuc on 2013-09-02 04:30 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-09-02 05:00
Remember, Missiles are supposed to be dangerous at range. They are going to be useful in 1.7 and PD ships will have a role.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-09-02 06:19
Honestly, you could drop missiles turn rates by 20% and it still wouldn't make a difference. No-one never noticed how when they fly past you they start turning like crazy? That's their turn limit.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-09-02 06:32
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 06:19, Pantheon wrote:
Honestly, you could drop missiles turn rates by 20% and it still wouldn't make a difference. No-one never noticed how when they fly past you they start turning like crazy? That's their turn limit.
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+1
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Ardex
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 17, 2012
Posts: 14
| Posted: 2013-09-02 13:59
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 05:00, iwancoppa wrote:
Remember, Missiles are supposed to be dangerous at range. They are going to be useful in 1.7 and PD ships will have a role.
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Will you spend your time ingame flying a ship with the only purpose being to pd missiles? I've never seen anyone who actually would.
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Always have an escape route...
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-09-02 14:53
There are 2 variations: skirmish and strike. Could it be possible that skirmish (the weaker) is more accurate than the strike (the stronger)?
Can station involve in capturing planet again?
Need more information about aura, especiall those on stations.
[ This Message was edited by: DiepLuc on 2013-09-02 15:19 ]
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2013-09-02 15:19
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 14:53, DiepLuc wrote:
There are 2 variations: skirmish and strike. Could it be possible that skirmish (the weaker) is more accurate than the strike (the stronger)?
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That is already the intention.
Quote:
And can station involve in capturing planet again?
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No, though that lovely Propaganda Center aura on the Command Station can help other ships capture planets faster.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-09-02 15:47
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 15:19, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
No, though that lovely Propaganda Center aura on the Command Station can help other ships capture planets faster.
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The Lab aura on SCB? Can you reveal the % of the aura, along with the description? Do engineering HQ and mining HQ effect the station itself?
I'm sad here. Aside combat type station, the support and the command station (I tested ICC) are no longer mother's love. Despite slower speed, no core weapon, longer HMA, they're not qualified to help capturing! IMO, if supply platform has repair field (that it should have), I bet nobody use SS since SCB is a much better choice overall aspects.
HMA recharges at 15 minutes are still too long. After jumped, I done capturing an empty planet with 3 supply platforms and built 3 basic structures, then I moved to orbit the next planet where is 1000gu near and captured it again with 3 supply plats. At that time, I was still unable to jump. 10 minutes are enough I think.
Bu the way, the new display filtering is quite splendid. At 2, I don't see much difference but at 8, I can see an art!
[ This Message was edited by: DiepLuc on 2013-09-02 15:52 ]
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-09-02 15:58
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 13:59, Ardex wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 05:00, iwancoppa wrote:
Remember, Missiles are supposed to be dangerous at range. They are going to be useful in 1.7 and PD ships will have a role.
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Will you spend your time ingame flying a ship with the only purpose being to pd missiles? I've never seen anyone who actually would.
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This actually throws up a potential issue. A dedicated PD ship as a role could be a necessary part of the fleet especially if there will be more missles flying around. It may be necessary to provide such an escort to defend ships who have no sort of defense, or a very weak one, against missile attack.
The problem arises where there seems to be no incentive other than team gratitude for doing so. Should a player spend a whole session flying around PD'ing missles defending his group or faction assets (planets/platforms etc) where is their prestige reward for that role? They certainly won't be getting a combat badge in that niche anytime this side of our Sun going Supergiant...
It seems that they will only gain prestige in other departments of ship maneuver that are outside their specialised role namely jumping or being aggressive with their weak PD beams but how much hull damage can they hope to inflict and how long will it take to inflict it... >: (
If a ship is to have a role it stands to reason that there should be prestige rewarded for that role, rather like the recent issue thrown up with the current 'transport badge' which has become a misnomer, it's actually a planet capture badge.
So what happens now? A new 'Fleet Defender' badge? To be gained from prestige gained by each missile destroyed? How difficult would that be to implement into code...
Perhaps each missile destroyed could contribute a small amount to 'Ships damaged' but that doesn't seem quite right as if I am correct that is a measure of hull damage inflicted on enemy ships and a missile is obviously not part of the hull. Do you see the questions and potential problems that this issue throws up?
To answer Ardex, I would happily fly a ship with my role being the safety of my teammates but I would feel extremely hard done by if all I was getting was a slap on the back from my group and no direct way to rank up. Imagine if a new player put in many hours of gameplay in this role, a role they enjoyed but then discovered they were not being rewarded, it's as if they had wasted their time and were not being truly valued or appreciated. They might even rage-log and never come back! : (
This is already an issue with flying transport as unless you're dropping infantry set to 'raze' (rare), trying to capture ships (difficult due to the random nature of the capture process) there is NO actual reward for the role of the ship. If I shunt infantry I get no prestige and the game is telling me that I am wasting my time in this role. This is wrong. If I shunt resources there is no prestige, the game is telling me I am wasting my time, and this is wrong. What then is the point of Mining ships and Transports really? Are they solely for capturing ships and dropping infantry set on raze? Something is wrong here. Perhaps a player might want to fly a Transport or extractor and have an appreciated prestige-gaining logistical role. There could be many potential players who have come to Darkspace and subsequently left because all they wanted to do was fly a relatively peaceful behind the lines sortie that kept up their supply line. Presently there is no incentive for doing so and I am beginning to see the same potential problem for dedicated PD ships. When asked to do a transport run ingame many players understandably prefer to stay in their combat ships - why? This is because there is no gain or 'fun' in performing a skilled role, risking death, for absolutely no prestige.
You could say that game time is precious. If a player is not gaining prestige then they are losing out on all the prestige they could be gaining in that same time if they were only to swap ships and fulfill another role say combat, construction or supply.
To sum up we have three problems which need a resolution.
Transport ships need prestige for actually transporting infantry or resources.
Mining resource extracting ships need prestige for extracting resources and transferring resources
Dedicated PD ships need prestige for PD'ing missiles, bombs and pods.
If nothing is done these ships will not be flown very often, especially by people wanting to rank up.
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan ORP on 2013-09-02 16:09 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-09-02 16:36
There's a reason there are Tier2 ships with PD roles. But aside from that since groups no longer share stats, give negative prestige, or result in less prestige gain for someone contributing more damage than others, there's no reason not to join them and no reason not to invite the people who are PDing for you.
There is no need to use an extractor to mine for res in MV, you just launch from a planet in a home server and load up, then dock and launch from whatever planet needs res and dump it off. Repeat the 30 second or less process as needed. The only time you should need an Extractor for res gathering is in scen if you have no mining planets.
Transport? Yeah, the badge needs a name change. But you already do gain pres from transporting troops, you get planet damage points for the damage they do to enemy inf or structures.
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Adapt or die.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-09-02 16:51
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 16:36, Talien wrote:
There's a reason there are Tier2 ships with PD roles. But aside from that since groups no longer share stats, give negative prestige, or result in less prestige gain for someone contributing more damage than others, there's no reason not to join them and no reason not to invite the people who are PDing for you.
There is no need to use an extractor to mine for res in MV, you just launch from a planet in a home server and load up, then dock and launch from whatever planet needs res and dump it off. Repeat the 30 second or less process as needed. The only time you should need an Extractor for res gathering is in scen if you have no mining planets.
Transport? Yeah, the badge needs a name change. But you already do gain pres from transporting troops, you get planet damage points for the damage they do to enemy inf or structures.
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Ok so you are part of a group as a PD ship. You gain a bit of their prestige but what do they get from you, prestige from your jumps? Say a supply ship comes on, won't they get more prestige all round from the supply as part of their group? I know people don't tend to think like this and don't remove players from a group just because they're not contributing prestige and that is a good thing but I still feel every role should have prestige gain for that role.
Regarding extractors they still have a niche. Personally I don't use them cos my garage is full. I mine with my engineer and transport resources with my transport if I need to.
Mining ships are still necessary to extract resources from planets in hostile servers in the MV in order to resupply supply platforms without the enemy discovering. Jumping in and out to my home sytem in another server is longting and I might get seen in my vulnerable ship at the bottleneck which is the server transfer gate. I have seen players mining neutral planets in hostile servers and have done so myself to establish a supply line. That won't change. Not everyone just flies combat...
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-09-02 17:31
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 16:51, Orkan ORP wrote:
This is already an issue with flying transport as unless you're dropping infantry set to 'raze' (rare), trying to capture ships (difficult due to the random nature of the capture process) there is NO actual reward for the role of the ship. If I shunt infantry I get no prestige and the game is telling me that I am wasting my time in this role. This is wrong. If I shunt resources there is no prestige, the game is telling me I am wasting my time, and this is wrong. What then is the point of Mining ships and Transports really? Are they solely for capturing ships and dropping infantry set on raze? Something is wrong here. Perhaps a player might want to fly a Transport or extractor and have an appreciated prestige-gaining logistical role. There could be many potential players who have come to Darkspace and subsequently left because all they wanted to do was fly a relatively peaceful behind the lines sortie that kept up their supply line. Presently there is no incentive for doing so and I am beginning to see the same potential problem for dedicated PD ships. When asked to do a transport run ingame many players understandably prefer to stay in their combat ships - why? This is because there is no gain or 'fun' in performing a skilled role, risking death, for absolutely no prestige.
You could say that game time is precious. If a player is not gaining prestige then they are losing out on all the prestige they could be gaining in that same time if they were only to swap ships and fulfill another role say combat, construction or supply.
To sum up we have three problems which need a resolution.
Transport ships need prestige for actually transporting infantry or resources.
Mining resource extracting ships need prestige for extracting resources and transferring resources
Dedicated PD ships need prestige for PD'ing missiles, bombs and pods.
If nothing is done these ships will not be flown very often, especially by people wanting to rank up.
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Man, do I dislike having to quote myself...
I have already mentioned the issue with transport as seen above. When dropping infantry set on 'raze' you are earning bomber prestige from the 'planets damaged' presitige category. As a newbie you would not know this unless you are told this or expend a lot of time and effort to seek this information out. It should be instinctive that when you transport you are earning prestige for actually transportation and not bombing cos isn't that what bombers are for? Or do you get a transport badge for bombing structures on a planet? : P
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan ORP on 2013-09-02 17:37 ]
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