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A wild K'luth appears! |
Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
|  Posted: 2010-07-04 08:14
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The fact that almost all K'luth dessies and cruisers are next to useless, yes I would say that's quite fitting.
The Scarab (and to a lesser extent, Scale) are the only 2 cruisers worth fielding in K'luth by virtue of the damage they can do. Period.
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Other factions small ships, minus the Missile Frigate/Harrier frigate and some of the cruisers (assault, battle, heavy, and torpedo), are not much better.
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Ultimately, sure. You want K'luth to give up their cloak? Fine.
Swap our cloak for UGTO armor. We retain our weapons. See who cries again.
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Kluth can keep their cloak, however, I do think cloak can use a few adjustments, it certainly should not be so damn effective at countering missiles and fighters that even the ICC's Pulse Wave sucks by comparison.
I also think that the Cloaking Device can be more suceptable to system damage when a Kluth ship is hulled, with this damage increasing the time it takes to cloak. Cloaking device damage can be proportionate to hull, with it receiving very little to no damage at all at high hull (80%+), while being very easily destroyed at lower percentage values. This is mainly to stop Kluth from using their hull as extra armor.
Or, an alternative to the above idea, Kluth hulls could simply be weaker overall.
I also think a cloaking Kluth ship should become visually invisible immediately. The idea behind this is that a heavily damaged Kluth Dreadnought could escape if the Kluth sent scouts to provide ECM cover, if the ECM Brings the Kluth ship below 0 sig, it becomes effectively cloaked. This could be one method to encourage the Kluth to bring more scouts to the field, much like the Kluth wish for the ICC/UGTO to be forced to use scouts to find them.
[ This Message was edited by: Leopard on 2010-07-04 08:22 ]
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Red October
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 30, 2010
Posts: 165
From: Stillwater, Oklahoma
| Posted: 2010-07-04 08:33
I love the arguement against the fact that it takes so many ICC Ships to take out an single Kluth. Let alone an station that could cloak in the midst of the fight and repair itself. Funny that we are forced to bring out scouts and sensor ships just to counter you guys?
I am not talking about taking away your abilites, but give ICC weapons to take you guys on. UGTO close range ships and ICC long range (AKA Missiles). ICC is easier target for Kluth because our main combat ability is missiles and those missiles explode into pretty little plums as soon as you guys cloak.
Figures why ICC is the only one being hammered hard by the Kluth as of lately because we can't mount an effect counter offense against you guys or barely even an defense. We been working as a team, heck, I bee throwing myself into the battle even though I know I am going to die because I was doing what another teammate told me to do. I also try to give my teammates cover whenever I can.
Nobody wants to spend a whole day just firing off blank shots into space, hoping you would hit an Kluth and find out that your only way to counter them has became useless. 3 Beacons only? Maybe up it 5 because the developers introduced stealth module.
Sorry to say, your arguements seem more like you guys want to keep the advance over ICC so you can get easy prestige. I don't QQ unless it is really almost impossible to fight another faction. To you guys, you guys gain more kills then deaths because of an simple little feature that allows you to hide "DIRECTLY" in the battlefield and repair.
Oh yeah, I love how you guys are pushing us out every system except our home system. I have an feeling it is going to be next. The servers don't lie. Next time an developer leaps on, take a look how badly the ICC is taking an beating from the Kluth.
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Xydes
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 07, 2009
Posts: 276
From: England
| Posted: 2010-07-04 08:41
Well, We just don't like ICC D: I am sorry to say that.
-Val
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Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2010-07-04 08:45
If a luth station cloaks in battle the answer is easy , you should know the location he is at and therefore manually target where he was , he is slow , he is a huge target , ICC is perfectly well equipped to deal with luth even more so than ugto tbh as we have more sensors on ships. If they cloak use manual beam fire to locate , ping , beacon etc etc.
This game currently is as balanced as it has been for some time.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-07-04 08:52
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On 2010-07-04 08:33, Alanstar wrote:
Let alone an station that could cloak in the midst of the fight and repair itself. |
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interesting facts:
3: a luth-station, repairing itself with cloak and AHR take up to 20 minutes to repair to 100% (ignoring the fact, that AHR need ammo)
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2010-07-04 08:57
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On 2010-07-04 08:33, Alanstar wrote:
I love the arguement against the fact that it takes so many ICC Ships to take out an single Kluth. Let alone an station that could cloak in the midst of the fight and repair itself. Funny that we are forced to bring out scouts and sensor ships just to counter you guys?
I am not talking about taking away your abilites, but give ICC weapons to take you guys on. UGTO close range ships and ICC long range (AKA Missiles). ICC is easier target for Kluth because our main combat ability is missiles and those missiles explode into pretty little plums as soon as you guys cloak.
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why dont you talk to the veteran icc players of your faction and see what is effective strategy agaisnt kluth
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Figures why ICC is the only one being hammered hard by the Kluth as of lately because we can't mount an effect counter offense against you guys or barely even an defense. We been working as a team, heck, I bee throwing myself into the battle even though I know I am going to die because I was doing what another teammate told me to do. I also try to give my teammates cover whenever I can.
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We been attacking icc becuse the ugto havnt been on or would you have us just go into scenario and just wait for someone willing to fight?
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Nobody wants to spend a whole day just firing off blank shots into space, hoping you would hit an Kluth and find out that your only way to counter them has became useless. 3 Beacons only? Maybe up it 5 because the developers introduced stealth module.
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if it takes u all day shooting at nothing. You should probably learn how to shoot unless a ping and pressing your E key is simply too hard for you.
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Sorry to say, your arguements seem more like you guys want to keep the advance over ICC so you can get easy prestige. I don't QQ unless it is really almost impossible to fight another faction. To you guys, you guys gain more kills then deaths because of an simple little feature that allows you to hide "DIRECTLY" in the battlefield and repair.
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are you not paying attention at all? how many non kluth have posted on this very topic about how balanced kluth is. Even giving their own insights in to strategies effective v kluth.
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Oh yeah, I love how you guys are pushing us out every system except our home system. I have an feeling it is going to be next. The servers don't lie. Next time an developer leaps on, take a look how badly the ICC is taking an beating from the Kluth.
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(yawns) if we wanted to push you out of the game you wouldnt be in it anyway allowing you to keep some planets helps us kill you better. Ofcourse all the qq and /ragequit from us wiping out icc totally is more annoying then fun.
Most of us have been around for years and know the game far better then you take some advice from people trying to get you to understand. If kluth and icc switched sides you would still be complaining about how op icc is and how impossible it i to fight them.When in truth it doesnt matter who uses what. A weapon is only as good as the wariror who wields it.
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-07-04 09:22
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On 2010-07-04 08:57, Necrotic wrote:
A weapon is only as good as the wariror who wields it.
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Nuff said
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2010-07-04 09:31
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On 2010-07-04 09:22, Grand Admiral CRAZY45 *TO* wrote:
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On 2010-07-04 08:57, Necrotic wrote:
A weapon is only as good as the wariror who wields it.
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Nuff said
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Until you bring a knife to a gun fire. Doesn't mean the gun will always win, but it has a distinct advantage over the knife.
[ This Message was edited by: Azure Prower on 2010-07-04 09:31 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-04 09:59
A number of vets have spoken. At this juncture I'll go with what Pak said.
LOL
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-07-04 10:08
id like to point out that many kluth players have said "zomg come play as us and youll see how bad it is" yet havent offered to come play as ICC or UGTO to demonstrate how easy they seem to think it is to kill them.
i also find it rather amusing that we're told to use better tactics by kluth to fight them, but they complain about eccm forts reducing cloak time... so you know the minelayer frigate has ecm on it right?
its also an absolute fact that kluth players die less frequently than UGTO and ICC. that in and of itself is an issue.
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Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-07-04 10:08
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On 2010-07-04 08:14, Leopard wrote:
I do think cloak can use a few adjustments, it certainly should not be so damn effective at countering missiles and fighters that even the ICC's Pulse Wave sucks by comparison.
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If missiles instead of blowing up, turn in to dumb fire and continue to home in on the last known location, this would make more sense then self destructing.
Would the Cloaked ship remain still he will be hit, if he large and not very quick on the feet I may still get hit.
For fighters, instead of returning, the shouldl engage an other target (nearest to them)
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On 2010-07-04 08:14, Leopard wrote:
I also think that the Cloaking Device can be more suceptable to system damage when a Kluth ship is hulled, with this damage increasing the time it takes to cloak. Cloaking device damage can be proportionate to hull, with it receiving very little to no damage at all at high hull (80%+), while being very easily destroyed at lower percentage values. This is mainly to stop Kluth from using their hull as extra armor.
Or, an alternative to the above idea, Kluth hulls could simply be weaker overall.
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With their self repair, it makes them almost immume to system damage.
I've hammerd them with EMP, but it has little to no effect on them in means of hindering the ability to cloak.
The effectness of cloak linked to there hull state doesn't sound all that bad. If If hull damage result in a longer cloaking delay, then it will will force them to remain hidden longer and self repair to ensure the can swiftly shift in and out of cloak. As it is now, they have the best surviability and are able to stay with in the vacinity of the battle field self repairing with little to no risk of getting interrupted or blown to shreds.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2010-07-04 11:22
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On 2010-07-04 10:08, Lark of Serenity wrote:
its also an absolute fact that kluth players die less frequently than UGTO and ICC. that in and of itself is an issue.
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QFT.
You know, a really good way for the developers to figure out balance would be for the game to run a counter in the Metaverse, how many ships are killed on average and by what types of ships. For example, it would show that 10 UGTO Dreadnoughts were killed, 3 by Missile Dread, 3 by EAD, 2 by Siphon, and 2 by Missile Frigate.
While it would not be perfect, I think one of the first things the developers would notice would be that Kluth ships hardly ever die in comparison to UGTO or ICC ships.
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are you not paying attention at all? how many non kluth have posted on this very topic about how balanced kluth is. Even giving their own insights in to strategies effective v kluth.
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There is a lot of disagreement and arguments over this particular subject, there are a lot of non-Kluth and Kluth veterans whom also think that Kluth actually do have it easy.
[ This Message was edited by: Leopard on 2010-07-04 11:29 ]
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2010-07-04 11:55
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On 2010-07-04 10:08, Lark of Serenity wrote:
---> id like to point out that many ICC players have said "zomg come play as us and youll see how bad it is" yet havent offered to come play as K'Luth or UGTO to demonstrate how easy they seem to think it is to kill them.
*its also an absolute fact that kluth players die less frequently than UGTO and ICC. that in and of itself is an issue.
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* u got data to back that or just an opinion of yours that we should all take as an absolute fact?
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Shath
Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 219
From: Portland, OR
| Posted: 2010-07-04 12:02
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On 2010-07-04 01:11, Alanstar wrote:
One thing I notice, I always try to keep an backup point to jump away from the Kluth when they come in numbers. I be fighting one on one, already having an hard time keeping an lock the little bugger as he inches my health away while I have to blind fire at an 15 GU moving target that I can't even see...
At one time, I got sick of it and placed my ship under Kluth ship that was about to die and self-destruct myself. Chain reaction took out few other Kluths around... thanks to the ship being a Station.
But you do go to remember, for someone to pull out an Recon ship just to face off against a Kluth, that weapons our number strength while they don't hardly need a recon ship to begin with.
13 vs 13 Dreadnought battle. ICC dreadnoughts are having an hard time because the Kluth could move freely around the battlefield and position themselves to take their ships out one by one. We are forced to have one player revert to an Recon ship to atleast make one of their ships even more visible.
That brings down our man-power by alot and makes us have to focus on taking out strangler Kluth ships. What even makes it harder, their armor repairs while they could just hide right in the midst of battle. I have lost more when I giving out the same amount of damage to the Kluth? Reason being they are healing while being cloaked which is subtle but really takes an bite out of my ability to combat him.
Their armor may be paper thin, but combined with Cloaking and the drones healing automatically, yes I will never be able to take down an Kluth ship unless it is 2 sizes below me or that I am having backup.
For ICC to suddenly turn into an Hit and Run faction overnight, that is something that really bugs me. Not to mention, it seems that ICC suppose to be the Long Range Type ships that hit you before you get even close to them, but that is only based on missiles. Kluth nulify those missiles quite alot, matter of fact, bring an missile dread, crusier, or frigate to the battlefield is automatic death.
I would love to see some new type of weapons designed to face off against Kluth faction that help balance it. You don't even need to nerf the Kluth, just give us something that could easily help us defend ourselves against them.
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well if u cant take luthys unless they 2 sizes below u..im srry thats kinda sad...ive had dreads take down my scales armor on 1 side COMPLETLY from one good salvo....3 qsts hitting me will bring me to about 80-90 hull yet alone with beams PCs etc added in and also 1 thing u guys gotta do is coordinate....kluths biggest weakness is an organized enemy because if u all start shooting random targets its gona be a sad situation of the kluth cloaking when takin heavby damage and uncloaking 30sec later and fillin ur rump full of beams (difference is if u all shot coordinatedly the luthys wud be popping lik bubble wrap and wudnt even get chance to cloak)
altho admittedly missles vs kluth is kinda suckish pecialy for ICC
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Shath
Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 219
From: Portland, OR
| Posted: 2010-07-04 12:07
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On 2010-07-04 02:14, Necrotic wrote:
It amazes me how nieve some people still are its like you have never played a multiplayer game before.Lets break it down there are 2 kinds of people in this world people who complain about whats wrong and the people who overcome it. ICC have said they are weak and underpowered yet we have proven this to be false. Everyone says the other factions are op. If icc and kluth switched places you would be complaining how op icc is
its the same thing we been hearing forever.
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this is the reason y i hav greatest respect for raven fs and dem oldschool icc fleets but NO RESPECT whatsoever for iccu ive yet to see them really do anything
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