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A wild K'luth appears! |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2010-07-04 23:26
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On 2010-07-04 22:06, Leopard wrote:
But considering that even most Kluth players think that adjustments could be made in some areas, especially missiles and the Krill, there is not much to add. However, I do think that Kluth should be forced to play at the ECM/ECCM game as well, as right now they have no incentive or reason to pull scouts out.
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Actually, we do have to pull ECMs out, especially when we bomb planets.
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2010-07-05 00:01
Hehe now as luth use the siphon more and more i wounder when the focus gonna switch over to nerf that aswell!
Im bored with these whining of balance every day! Ive been doing a lot of combat and what ive experienced is that many don't really know what their doing, jumping in and out and splitting up. Ugto and Icc cant do that without getting owned by luth. We are sitting and waiting for you to do it. And when u finally splits up, we jump in and kill you and then we got to listen to whining.
Sometimes you need to evaluate your self before shouting out loud. These days people rather go the other way and blame others and specially the game when they die. The truth is that its their own fault.
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-07-05 03:16
you know sitting here think this stupid noob think luth are opped then please tell me why luth only have one system while ugto has 3 and icc has 1. i mean if luth are really so oped should they control the whole system by now i mean seriously icc just wiped both ugto and luth butt in a couple of days now ugto coming back yet luth still sit here they get one system but can never get another. maybe it numbers maybe it the fact luth have a hard time doing frontal assault. no idea maybe someone can answer this question.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2010-07-05 03:37
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On 2010-07-05 03:16, Meehan wrote:
i mean if luth are really so oped should they control the whole system by now i mean seriously icc just wiped both ugto and luth butt in a couple of days now ugto coming back yet luth still sit here they get one system but can never get another.
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Maybe Kluth should of concentrated on UGTO instead of bottling up ICC in their last system.
Also, the only reason ICC owned the entire Sag server not so long ago was because we tranny rushed liked mad. Any faction can tranny rush. It's no secret.
The reason for this thread is not because Kluth is dominating a system or two. Not because some one is dying to them.
The real reason for this thread is for the lack of effective counters against the Kluth as well as the fact that they can use all combat ships while opposing factions are required to jump in specialty ships to fight them. They can see and lock you on their targeting at all times, yet you have to resort to ineffective and tedious blind shooting to shoot them.
I don't QQ because I die. I QQ because I can't fight them.
Their counters are ineffective and tedious at best.
Missile Frigates have a solid counter. Get a interdictor and they're dead in the water.
Kluth? Get a scout and ping/beacon them only to have them laugh at you as they disappear again and fly away to another location.
I don't think I've died once playing Kluth because there is rarely any one who can hit you.
I have taken the time to play both sides... Have you?
[ This Message was edited by: Azure Prower on 2010-07-05 03:43 ]
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2010-07-05 03:41
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On 2010-07-05 03:16, Meehan wrote:
you know sitting here think this stupid noob think luth are opped then please tell me why luth only have one system while ugto has 3 and icc has 1. i mean if luth are really so oped should they control the whole system by now i mean seriously icc just wiped both ugto and luth butt in a couple of days now ugto coming back yet luth still sit here they get one system but can never get another. maybe it numbers maybe it the fact luth have a hard time doing frontal assault. no idea maybe someone can answer this question.
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Meehan your already better then most people in the game. Just by having the ability to see what is right in front of you. If only other people in the game could grasp this very basic concept.
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-07-05 04:57
How about we refrain from calling others "noobs" just for seeing things differently? The devs already declared they wanted to nerf the Krill, so that should end the complaints re: Krill hopefully; now you're just arguing who is right and who is wrong, and I think you could do that in a more polite manner.
Rather than insult eachother, you could try to resolve this in a more polite way.
And it doesn't matter who owns most of Sag, everyone wants BD. :V
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-07-05 07:43
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On 2010-07-05 03:37, Azure Prower wrote:
The real reason for this thread is for the lack of effective counters against the Kluth as well as the fact that they can use all combat ships while opposing factions are required to jump in specialty ships to fight them. They can see and lock you on their targeting at all times, yet you have to resort to ineffective and tedious blind shooting to shoot them.
I don't QQ because I die.
Kluth? Get a scout and ping/beacon them only to have them laugh at you as they disappear again and fly away to another location.
I don't think I've died once playing Kluth because there is rarely any one who can hit you.
I have taken the time to play both sides... Have you?
[ This Message was edited by: Azure Prower on 2010-07-05 03:43 ]
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My challenge still stands. Ill play scout with a combat escort. You get in whatever Kluth ship your heart desires. We'll see if you dont die. We'll see how effective a scout, pings, and beacons can be in the hands of a veteran pilot.
You QQ because you dont know how to kill them. Not that it cant be done.
Also, there are three things that come into play here that few people grasp the concept of.
The game plays different in these three situations:
1. Scenario server. The flow is just different.
2. MV at peak times. This is what DS is really designed for.
3. MV at low times. This is the hardest to balance out.
When MV is high pop, then it is easy to gather together ship profiles to suit the situation. When it is low, the person/people playing have a harder time accomplishing anything if the game is tuned too much for fleet based play.
DS has struggled to find a happy medium for a few years now. They arent doing too bad a job at it.
As for playing different factions, Ive been here three years. I have played UGTO in MV, but mostly I have been K'Luth since the beginning. Scenario? Doesnt matter which faction I play. Played them all, and still do. I play scenario on my various alt accts all the time. I dont even have a preference in scenario.
I have seen logical, well meaning responses to your complaints. Some of the best players in the game have given you advice, ideas, and explainations. You have remained unmoved and held to your opinion in every case. If you are already set in your mindset, then there isnt anything anyone is going to be able to tell you, regardless of whether they are right or not.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:04
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On 2010-07-05 07:43, Azreal wrote:
My challenge still stands. Ill play scout with a combat escort. You get in whatever Kluth ship your heart desires. We'll see if you dont die. We'll see how effective a scout, pings, and beacons can be in the hands of a veteran pilot.
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Going to stop you right there. As stated before. Your challenge you are giving me is a 2 on 1? Shouldn't it be 2 vs 2 to be fair? 2 Krills vs. your pathetic scout and combat escort.
Money is on the Krills as you have to scarifies damage to use a scout and barely get a glimpse at Kluth, resulting in more damage loss from stray fire.
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On 2010-07-05 07:43, Azreal wrote:
I have seen logical, well meaning responses to your complaints. Some of the best players in the game have given you advice, ideas, and explainations. You have remained unmoved and held to your opinion in every case. If you are already set in your mindset, then there isnt anything anyone is going to be able to tell you, regardless of whether they are right or not.
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Actually, there have been no real explanations, just "kluth are fine" and "you don't know how to kill them" speeches that amount to nothing.
Beacons have a cap that is easily nullified by stealth mods. Pinging and blind shooting is tedious and out dated. We need a interdictor-like field that reveals cloak in a small area or cloaking needs to be redesigned.
The amount of "skill" required to take out a Kluth is insane compared to taking out ICC or UGTO.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:18
Please please dont nerf Kluth at all!
They sometimes get owned till Depot hug by three or four ICC Dreads working together in Scenario, but usaly it is WELL ballanced.
(Looks like there is a big difference with MV and Scen.)
I want to destroy them as they are, especialy the KRILL.
[ This Message was edited by: perihelion on 2010-07-05 08:20 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:24
Is there a point talking to a wall?
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:38
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On 2010-07-05 08:04, Azure Prower wrote:
Going to stop you right there. As stated before. Your challenge you are giving me is a 2 on 1? Shouldn't it be 2 vs 2 to be fair? 2 Krills vs. your pathetic scout and combat escort.
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I guess I put too much stock in the fact that I can generally get some random player to log in and play scout when I need one, so in the case of your 2 Krills, If I had two combats, I would simply find myself a scout pilot. Nubs arent hard to find, and neither are friends.
You can lay out any scenario and then point at it screaming indignantly that it is irrefutable proof. It's not a new trick. Demogogues have used it for centuries.
Situations change, and sometimes quickly. Thats part of the game. I guess you want there to be some type of situation where when you meet a enemy in battle, the outcome is already decided in your favor.
Anyways, I know Im wasting my time, so I'll just stop bothering. I havent seen u in game yet. I look forward to killing you when I do.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:47
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On 2010-07-05 08:38, Azreal wrote:
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On 2010-07-05 08:04, Azure Prower wrote:
Going to stop you right there. As stated before. Your challenge you are giving me is a 2 on 1? Shouldn't it be 2 vs 2 to be fair? 2 Krills vs. your pathetic scout and combat escort.
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I guess I put too much stock in the fact that I can generally get some random player to log in and play scout when I need one, so in the case of your 2 Krills, If I had two combats, I would simply find myself a scout pilot. Nubs arent hard to find, and neither are friends.
You can lay out any scenario and then point at it screaming indignantly that it is irrefutable proof. It's not a new trick. Demogogues have used it for centuries.
Situations change, and sometimes quickly. Thats part of the game. I guess you want there to be some type of situation where when you meet a enemy in battle, the outcome is already decided in your favor.
Anyways, I know Im wasting my time, so I'll just stop bothering. I havent seen u in game yet. I look forward to killing you when I do.
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You keep saying, oh but I should have one more player than you because I'm using a scout.
No. Just no.
You are sacrificing man power to get some one to use a scout. You do not get an extra player. They are either in combat ship or a scout.
1 vs 2 or 2 vs. 3 is not balanced game play.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:52
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On 2010-07-05 08:38, Azreal wrote:
I guess I put too much stock in the fact that I can generally get some random player to log in and play scout when I need one, so in the case of your 2 Krills, If I had two combats, I would simply find myself a scout pilot. Nubs arent hard to find, and neither are friends.
You can lay out any scenario and then point at it screaming indignantly that it is irrefutable proof. It's not a new trick. Demogogues have used it for centuries.
Situations change, and sometimes quickly. Thats part of the game. I guess you want there to be some type of situation where when you meet a enemy in battle, the outcome is already decided in your favor.
Anyways, I know Im wasting my time, so I'll just stop bothering. I havent seen u in game yet. I look forward to killing you when I do.
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C'mon Az, you know this guy is talking shiatz.
How many time have I taken them on solo in a Scarab, and 1 scout, 1 escort dessie, 1 HC, and even a dread join in the chase trying to catch me. Sometimes a dictor follows.
I can't even decloak to fight back. But that's beside the point.
There is no such thing as pure 2 vs 2. Most of the time it's always uneven numbers unless the rare duel takes place. This guy is just spewing rubbish with his strawman's arguments. Just kill him ingame when you see him. Gank him en masse.
Period.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-07-05 08:55 ]
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-07-05 08:54
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On 2010-07-05 00:01, Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ] wrote:
Ive been doing a lot of combat and what ive experienced is that many don't really know what their doing, jumping in and out and splitting up. Ugto and Icc cant do that without getting owned by luth. We are sitting and waiting for you to do it. And when u finally splits up, we jump in and kill you and then we got to listen to whining.
Sometimes you need to evaluate your self before shouting out loud. These days people rather go the other way and blame others and specially the game when they die. The truth is that its their own fault.
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I find it bit bold to say that ICC and UGTO, don’t know what they are doing.
The sitting and waiting game is easy played when you can actually see your target. Waiting not knowing where your enemy is and when and who they will hit next is a complete different story.
When ICC or UGTO remain in a tight formation and stick close to one another their six, well then there is often simply nothing happening. It’s a standoff, both sides waiting for who will make the first move or mistake. Would K’luth strike first at such a formation that is flying closely near one another then they will very likely be the one losing the battle.
Fighting something you can’t see, requires a great deal self discipline, a lot more then sneaking about hidden, looking for the perfect opening. The longer the wait, the harder it will get to have people remain in formation and not go roam about causing K’luth to react.
This is only a game, most people want action not a sit and waiting game, and I don’t blame those who leave formation to seek out action and in response trigger the K’luth to act. Often those thrill seekers will get them self’s killed, with little to no time left for allies to respond to come to there aid. But sometimes it does pays off. Surviving just long enough for allies to join the fight and assist in combat to hit back the K’luth with equal force and losses. Those thrill seekers have my respect, for they take one for the team, even if it doesn’t always pays out well.
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On 2010-07-05 08:04, Azure Prower wrote:
Beacons have a cap that is easily nullified by stealth mods. Pinging and blind shooting is tedious and out dated. We need a interdictor-like field that reveals cloak in a small area or cloaking needs to be redesigned.
The amount of "skill" required to take out a Kluth is insane compared to taking out ICC or UGTO.
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A new ECCM device (or a toggle mode for the current ECCM device) thatt would do nothing but PING, sending out short range but high powered bursts of ECCM signals every seconds would work for me. I don’t need the K’luth to be fully revealed, I don’t need a target lock, I don’t need them to stay visible. I only need a glimpse of their location so I and my allies can sense what there up to and if close enough attempt to manually fire at.
Getting just a glimpse, even if that is less than a second of their location is just enough information to have people properly react to. May this be open fire (manually, target and aim) or steer back in to formation sensing he/she might have flown to far out of formation and risk becoming the next K'luth victim.
The current ECCM pinging may it be a bug or a feature, it`s the only defense we have to briefly reveal the location of cloaked ships. But with the long cool down time, a single device is of little use, with multiple devices it becomes more useful but very hard to properly use. Activating multiple ECCM devices at ones, reveals them a bit longer, but those are only carried by lower tier ships that are very likely to be blown up first.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2010-07-05 10:03
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On 2010-07-05 08:52, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
There is no such thing as pure 2 vs 2.
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Of course in a real battle. Derp.
We talking about a staged simulation here.
If it takes a 2 on 1 to destroy a kluth ship. Or a 3 on 2 as described above.
Then logic defines in a real battle you will need a ratio of 3 ships for every 2 Kluth to beat them.
@ Wild Cat: I like your idea. Although blind shooting is still tedious and not much fun. :/
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