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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
|  Posted: 2011-05-11 19:13
The AD no longer has 5 shield arcs?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-11 19:17
Yes Siphon and Mandible should not be measured on DPS, as they're not DPS ships. Krill and Ganglia yeah you can measure on DPS.
And what's this about Krill not having a layout yet? It has a new layout in beta, and I like it: 8 SI and 8 heavy cannon, very good for a GA ship. Am I going to have to take back everything I said the other day about liking the new dreads? Somehow I just knew hell froze over when I looked at the new layouts and liked them all.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-05-11 19:24 ]
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On 2011-05-11 17:19, Silent Threat { Vier } wrote:
This is what I was thinking. Shouldn't the Siphon being K'luth, have the highest alpha strike of any dread in the game? |
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I would say the Mandible should have the highest alpha strike in the game, if ELF beams truly drained significant energy from the target, to a point where the target would not be able to continue with alpha strikes.
There was a time when that's what happened, when drainers could suck all the energy from a target. That's just drainers.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2011-05-11 19:21
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On 2011-05-11 19:17, General Zod wrote:
Yes Siphon and Mandible should not be measured on DPS, as they're not DPS ships. Krill and Ganglia yeah you can measure on DPS.
And what's this about Krill not having a layout yet? It has a new layout in beta, and I like it: 8 SI and 8 heavy cannon, very good for a GA ship. Am I going to have to take back everything I said the other day about liking the new dreads? Somehow I just knew hell froze over when I looked at the new layouts and liked them all.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-05-11 19:18 ]
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Oh? Huh. Guess Eledore must've gone ahead and uploaded it, then.
My bad.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-11 19:27
Whew, then that is the planned layout so far? I looked at all Kluth dreads but the Brood, testing them on ai. At the time they were all good, and my only concern was the lack of shock missiles. My initial concern with Siphon being beams and Mandible being torps subsided when I saw the very different roles they'd perform..again reconsider the idea of roles vs power.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-05-11 19:30
long term dps for luth isn't a problem. for our close range ships we rely on one or two good strong alpha strikes and then either cloak or jump for energy. only problem i could see with a siphon vrs EAD is the fact that the ead has 2 rear armor slots, making it have great rear protection. back in 483 a luth dred would open up on a ead and put it in to hull damage before it would be tagged and have to run before getting killed.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-11 19:41
Might be just me, but I've found SI damage is too inconsistent to really give a Krill an average DPS, it can just vary too much from shot to shot. In the testing I did with it in beta I've had AI extractors frequently survive an alpha, whereas a Siphon or Mandible is pretty much guaranteed to kill them in 1 alpha. Even an AD will kill them with one alpha unless it's out of beam range and only firing torps/Ions.
Krill's advantage over the Siphon is range and energy efficiency. Compared to a Mandible it mostly comes up short, but can potentially do more damage if the SI get good rolls on the RNG.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-05-11 19:44
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On 2011-05-11 19:41, Talien wrote:
Might be just me, but I've found SI damage is too inconsistent to really give a Krill an average DPS, it can just vary too much from shot to shot. In the testing I did with it in beta I've had AI extractors frequently survive an alpha, whereas a Siphon or Mandible is pretty much guaranteed to kill them in 1 alpha. Even an AD will kill them with one alpha unless it's out of beam range and only firing torps/Ions.
Krill's advantage over the Siphon is range and energy efficiency. Compared to a Mandible it mostly comes up short, but can potentially do more damage if the SI get good rolls on the RNG.
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yeah SI have a chance to do 70-130% damage
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-11 21:25
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On 2011-05-11 19:41, Talien wrote:
Might be just me, but I've found SI damage is too inconsistent to really give a Krill an average DPS, it can just vary too much from shot to shot. In the testing I did with it in beta I've had AI extractors frequently survive an alpha, whereas a Siphon or Mandible is pretty much guaranteed to kill them in 1 alpha. Even an AD will kill them with one alpha unless it's out of beam range and only firing torps/Ions.
Krill's advantage over the Siphon is range and energy efficiency. Compared to a Mandible it mostly comes up short, but can potentially do more damage if the SI get good rolls on the RNG.
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That's been the Krill all along. I never understood the QQ against it.
SIs are iffy. It has weak beams. Cannons are negligible.
The Krill has always been a fire support ship, and not a knife fighter. It's not really a threat unless you sit still and eat its SIs a few times.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-11 21:32
I tested the Siph, Mandi and Krill again yesterday.
The Siph has enough beams as it currently stands. What it needs are projectile weaps, and that means torps. If an EAD fits on reflective armor, it's not going to help the Siph at all. And knowing Uggies, they will put Def Upgrades on the EAD + Reflectives, which will basically swing the advantage over to the EAD.
So there goes the Superdread vs Superdread contest.
OK, but that aside. As some has suggested, the Siphon needs a definitive advantage in alpha-strike regardless of range. For a "super dread" it already has less armor than a 'regular' human dread, so its role lies in decloaking close off the enemy and giving it critical damage before having to break off (either due to energy or damage to itself).
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-05-11 21:48
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On 2011-05-11 21:25, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-11 19:41, Talien wrote:
Might be just me, but I've found SI damage is too inconsistent to really give a Krill an average DPS, it can just vary too much from shot to shot. In the testing I did with it in beta I've had AI extractors frequently survive an alpha, whereas a Siphon or Mandible is pretty much guaranteed to kill them in 1 alpha. Even an AD will kill them with one alpha unless it's out of beam range and only firing torps/Ions.
Krill's advantage over the Siphon is range and energy efficiency. Compared to a Mandible it mostly comes up short, but can potentially do more damage if the SI get good rolls on the RNG.
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That's been the Krill all along. I never understood the QQ against it.
SIs are iffy. It has weak beams. Cannons are negligible.
The Krill has always been a fire support ship, and not a knife fighter. It's not really a threat unless you sit still and eat its SIs a few times.
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thats how i use my krill first outta cloak to lead the attack. its modded to take the beating.
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-11 21:50
Call me crazy, but I love(d) ELFs. Back in...well, whatever version we had 5+ years ago, ELFs drained a noticeable amount from enemy capacitors.
Do ELFs currently scale? If yes, to make them more worthwhile, is it possible/advisable to increase the scaling? What about heavy ELFs, or are we moving away from heavy variants other than basic beams and cannons? It's a K'luth special weapon and I'd hate to see it fall by the wayside.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-11 21:58
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On 2011-05-11 21:25, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
That's been the Krill all along. I never understood the QQ against it.
SIs are iffy. It has weak beams. Cannons are negligible.
The Krill has always been a fire support ship, and not a knife fighter. It's not really a threat unless you sit still and eat its SIs a few times.
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I think most of the complaints against the Krill was it had the most core weaps of any ship, but it was on the knife fight faction.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-11 22:07
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On 2011-05-11 21:32, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
OK, but that aside. As some has suggested, the Siphon needs a definitive advantage in alpha-strike regardless of range. For a "super dread" it already has less armor than a 'regular' human dread, so its role lies in decloaking close off the enemy and giving it critical damage before having to break off (either due to energy or damage to itself). |
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True, but I'm kinda hoping they go back to light/heavy armor instead of specialized ablative/reflective armor.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2011-05-11 22:08
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On 2011-05-11 21:32, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
I tested the Siph, Mandi and Krill again yesterday.
The Siph has enough beams as it currently stands. What it needs are projectile weaps, and that means torps. If an EAD fits on reflective armor, it's not going to help the Siph at all. And knowing Uggies, they will put Def Upgrades on the EAD + Reflectives, which will basically swing the advantage over to the EAD.
So there goes the Superdread vs Superdread contest.
OK, but that aside. As some has suggested, the Siphon needs a definitive advantage in alpha-strike regardless of range. For a "super dread" it already has less armor than a 'regular' human dread, so its role lies in decloaking close off the enemy and giving it critical damage before having to break off (either due to energy or damage to itself).
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It isn't as if you have to use a siphon vs an EAD.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-11 22:18
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On 2011-05-11 21:58, Talien wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-11 21:25, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
That's been the Krill all along. I never understood the QQ against it.
SIs are iffy. It has weak beams. Cannons are negligible.
The Krill has always been a fire support ship, and not a knife fighter. It's not really a threat unless you sit still and eat its SIs a few times.
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I think most of the complaints against the Krill was it had the most core weaps of any ship, but it was on the knife fight faction.
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Question to you.
Do we have to stick to semantics or faction design principle to a T?
What's a missile cruiser doing on UGTO?
What's an AD/AC doing on ICC?
Get my point so far? There'll always be the odd duckling.
The Krill is it... and maybe the far less useful Ganglia.
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