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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
|  Posted: 2011-05-19 15:19
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On 2011-05-19 14:24, IANF wrote:
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On 2011-05-19 12:56, Krim {C?} wrote:
All in all ships are much more deadly now than before. There are going to be lots of "Boom Booms" when the update goes live.
It's not going to be about single ship defenses anymore. We will need interdictors now, not just to trap ships to kill them (with the massive damage output coming there is no need really) but rather to defend yourselves from Alpha attacks and massive torpedo/beam volleys from up close. Kluth still have cloak advantage, which means scouts will be that much more important now....
I see combat becoming much more tactical, or risk losing lots of ships in the proccess. I think This update will require a new way of playing DS than most players are used to.
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this is a very good point. i think the game would get more hits if it were more tactical. i like these games because they require soem tactics and it isn't just the bigger ship wins kind of deal here
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The thing is cruisers have always dominated dreads in groups. It's just no one bothers to use smaller ships because they aren't as flashy.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-19 20:51
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On 2011-05-19 13:57, *Alcedo* wrote:
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On 2011-05-19 11:52, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
After the beam buff, the Uggie Assault Dess and Cruiser are now pretty lethal when put up against their counterparts, especially up close.
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Which Cruiser do you mean?
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Missed it out. Torpedo Cruiser.
Put it on a dread's ass, keep it there, and watch the pilot panic.
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Silent Threat { Vier }
Marshal
Anarchy's End
Joined: August 03, 2004
Posts: 278
From: Waiting...watching...
| Posted: 2011-05-19 22:02
Me and 2 of bro's were just playing around in Beta. The Ganglia may be a bit OP. Though we were all using 8 adv weapons multiplexers. (Yes, I know using enh some could say that the results were fouled up but that's what we would be doing in the MV) Using Shroud missles we destroyed UGTO dreads with each of us firing 2 missle alphas and with the recharge time of the missles, that wasn't long at all.
One other thing that we noticed while in beta was that the enemy dread said that he could see us and target us when we were about 1600 gu's away with a -4.7 sig. We cloaked and uncloaked again to see if that would make a difference but he could still target us once we uncloaked again. Is it supposed to be that way now?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-19 22:04
No, it's the cloak bug. Just relog when that happens and it fixes it.
_________________
Adapt or die.
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Silent Threat { Vier }
Marshal
Anarchy's End
Joined: August 03, 2004
Posts: 278
From: Waiting...watching...
| Posted: 2011-05-19 22:08
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 22:04, Talien wrote:
No, it's the cloak bug. Just relog when that happens and it fixes it.
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There were 3 of us on. It happened to all 3 of us at the same time? because he said that he could target all 3 of us...
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-19 23:29
Oh, that was after you uncloaked and turned on ECM? No idea then, far as I know even a Station shouldn't be targetable from that far away.
_________________
Adapt or die.
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-20 01:49
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 15:19, Sens [R33] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 14:24, IANF wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 12:56, Krim {C?} wrote:
All in all ships are much more deadly now than before. There are going to be lots of "Boom Booms" when the update goes live.
It's not going to be about single ship defenses anymore. We will need interdictors now, not just to trap ships to kill them (with the massive damage output coming there is no need really) but rather to defend yourselves from Alpha attacks and massive torpedo/beam volleys from up close. Kluth still have cloak advantage, which means scouts will be that much more important now....
I see combat becoming much more tactical, or risk losing lots of ships in the proccess. I think This update will require a new way of playing DS than most players are used to.
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this is a very good point. i think the game would get more hits if it were more tactical. i like these games because they require soem tactics and it isn't just the bigger ship wins kind of deal here
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The thing is cruisers have always dominated dreads in groups. It's just no one bothers to use smaller ships because they aren't as flashy.
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My main problem with cruisers vs dreads is that the cruisers just didn't do much of a dent unless it was over a long period of time. VS UGTO this update will be fantastic. VS K'luth, our cruisers are still as useless as they were (you can't hit cloaked ships at range, especially after the eccm nerf) .
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Indictor: 1. To accuse of wrongdoing
Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-05-20 02:31
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My main problem with cruisers vs dreads is that the cruisers just didn't do much of a dent unless it was over a long period of time. VS UGTO this update will be fantastic. VS K'luth, our cruisers are still as useless as they were (you can't hit cloaked ships at range, especially after the eccm nerf) .
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There is a huge class difference between cruisers and dreads. Normaly, Developers fix numbers as 2 cruisers = 1 dread or it used to be like that.I dont know much about numbers in this beta version. ICC is always the winner against ugto at range. This has been like that before iin every patch. That's why ICC cruisers are the most lethal against big targets comparing to other faction's cruisers. ICC cruiser vs other cruiser is really debatable. In fact this is where the skill of game play comes in.
I really dont think icc cruisers will have a problem against kluth . I mean, if you are standing middle of space, and afking , yes most probably you will die. But with new tweaks , it is almost imposible for kluth to follow any ship at high speed while cloaked. That incluids kluth cruisers too.Icc cruisers always meant to be running around instead of going slowly.
My prediction for new build is:
ICC will go all cruisers.
Ugto will go all dreads.
Kluth will go all krill and ganglia.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-20 02:45
What Reznor said. To add a bit of my toughts, the major change I see is the MUST to stay at MAXIMUM range as ICC to avoid core weapons. Dodging them with their faster fire rate will not be an option.
I like the new Heavy Cruiser and Combat Dreadnought. Especially the CD which now represents all heavy gun ship a dread should be, only the problem with keeping range will still be there. Anyway, both focus on broadsides which is a nice change, will help while kiting a lot. In the case of the HC, it became a highly mobile UGTO dread bane, just forget the torps, you won't get the chance to fire them too often.
And a note to myself:
New rule when fighting K'Luth - when in combat situation where it may come to a duel or you are in number disadvantage, there is only one way - jump out no matter what ship you are in even if it's not damaged yet.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-20 04:19 ]
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ICC in a nutshell
UGTO in a nutshell
\"I'M HEAVY METAL \\m/>_<\\m/ !!\"
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-20 04:24
Quote:
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On 2011-05-20 02:45, Gerlach wrote:
And a note to myself:
New rule when fighting K'Luth - when in combat situation where it may come to a duel or you are in number disadvantage, there is only one way - jump out no matter what ship you are in even if it's not damaged yet.
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One simple rule.
When you're in a cruiser, and shoot at a Kluth dread. And he cloaks.
Do not assume that he's scared and is hiding from you.
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-05-20 05:32
Quote:
| On 2011-05-20 04:24, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
When you're in a cruiser, and shoot at a Kluth dread. And he cloaks.
Do not assume that he's scared and is hiding from you. |
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i assume he's raging and log off.
Now with the new layout, going to have new enhs on old ship. 8 awa or awc on krill, 8 awm on mandi, 8 abc on siphon is yummy!
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-05-20 06:11
Quote:
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On 2011-05-20 04:24, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-20 02:45, Gerlach wrote:
And a note to myself:
New rule when fighting K'Luth - when in combat situation where it may come to a duel or you are in number disadvantage, there is only one way - jump out no matter what ship you are in even if it's not damaged yet.
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One simple rule.
When you're in a cruiser, and shoot at a Kluth dread. And he cloaks.
Do not assume that he's scared and is hiding from you.
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It's more like we are bored of you and our jump drive is on cold Down
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-20 06:57
Not really, I've never assumed a K'Luth that cloaks is afraid. It's mostly what Borgie said, or simply the need to restart the combat. Cruisers now are hardly a threat to anything. After the change they will be somewhat dangerous to dreadnoughts at the cost of their own endurance when taking fire from them. And that was the point, now a Heavy Cruiser can take 2, maybe 3 alphas before the need to retreat. This will go down to 1~2 after the update and against K'Luth you will never get to fire first.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-20 06:58 ]
_________________
ICC in a nutshell
UGTO in a nutshell
\"I'M HEAVY METAL \\m/>_<\\m/ !!\"
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2011-05-20 11:52
Quote:
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On 2011-05-20 06:57, Gerlach wrote:
... a Heavy Cruiser can take 2, maybe 3 alphas before the need to retreat. This will go down to 1~2 after the update and against K'Luth you will never get to fire first.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-20 06:58 ]
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Only thing this makes me concerned about is battles against ships took a period of time, which meant a bit of energy management, you had to choose speed, selectivly fire certain weapons and manage armor facings.
I'm concerned that combat is going to get so brutal, (like 3 kluth dreads attacking at the same time) that DS may just become Alpha till it's dead because that's the fastest way.... don't worry about rotating armor or shield facings because you'll be dead before you can get that solid armor arc up?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-20 13:44
Quote:
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On 2011-05-19 15:19, Sens [R33] wrote:
The thing is cruisers have always dominated dreads in groups. It's just no one bothers to use smaller ships because they aren't as flashy. |
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The problem is those theoretical numbers don't work in fleet vs fleet. 2 cruisers may be able to take on 1 dread, but when it's teams of 8v8 or whatever, cruisers will not be able to handle all the dreads and they will lose to the superior firepower...so long as it's a healthy mix of dreads and not all EADs vs HCs.
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