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[Beta] Dreadnaught layouts |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2011-05-12 20:24
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On 2011-05-12 19:53, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
you guys are trying to balance it for two factions only. you're forgetting about the other one.
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Have you tested them against the other factions yet?
If so, write your reviews.
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Ants
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 315
From: Canada
| Posted: 2011-05-12 20:26
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On 2011-05-12 19:59, General Zod wrote:
Well bring up your concerns about ICC dreads.
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Command Carrier is still a useless large engie that can't defend its self.
With all the updates to the Command classes the ICC got screwed.
I hope the AD shields armour will be looked at again, but it looks like a fine ship, but still need to fully test it in combat against the EAD.
The CD looks great.
The Battle Station seems to still be a tad OP, but that can be a bias opinion.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2011-05-12 20:48
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Did you use the ELF before it's armor was down? I've found them to do next to nothing unless they're hitting hull. |
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I had it tested against a Cruiser with undamaged armor and deactivated engines/reactors and it drained exactly as much as it was supposed to. The reason it may seem to drain less is due to your engines/reactors regenerating your energy as it drains.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-12 20:59
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On 2011-05-12 20:48, Jim Starluck wrote:
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Did you use the ELF before it's armor was down? I've found them to do next to nothing unless they're hitting hull. |
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I had it tested against a Cruiser with undamaged armor and deactivated engines/reactors and it drained exactly as much as it was supposed to. The reason it may seem to drain less is due to your engines/reactors regenerating your energy as it drains.
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That means it's not draining enough. ELF has been useless for years now. Seriously, 4.0 is a pittance compared to ship reserves and regeneration rates. Even 8.0, double the drain, wouldn't be much.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-12 21:29
What Zod said.
ELF is so short ranged that I have to get in your face to use it, risking a lot of damage. It should drain something in the order of 15 energy units per gun, per shot at the current recharge rate.
I'd rather remove all 6 and get aux gens. 
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-12 21:32
ICC ships get shredded at medium range by the Krill and the Ganglia.
Seriously.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-12 21:37
Yeah, the Ganglia actually has some bite now. You practically need ECCM on all the time to be able to see the missiles, especially the Shrouds.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-12 21:53
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:32, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
ICC ships get shredded at medium range by the Krill and the Ganglia.
Seriously.
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With the Krill, it's always been the case. Get the CD to shell it, or an AD to jump it.
As for the Gang, all I can say is it's about damned time. That dread has been a turkey, and it's about time it got some bite.
Your MD does a whole lot more damage. A single full salvo connecting can near kill a full-health Kluth cruiser.
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-12 21:58
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:53, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:32, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
ICC ships get shredded at medium range by the Krill and the Ganglia.
Seriously.
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With the Krill, it's always been the case. Get the CD to shell it, or an AD to jump it.
As for the Gang, all I can say is it's about damned time. That dread has been a turkey, and it's about time it got some bite.
Your MD does a whole lot more damage. A single full salvo connecting can near kill a full-health Kluth cruiser.
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By CD I'm assuming you mean the combat destroyer, cause the Combat dread gets completely annihilated by the krill.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-05-12 21:59
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On 2011-05-12 21:29, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
What Zod said.
ELF is so short ranged that I have to get in your face to use it, risking a lot of damage. It should drain something in the order of 15 energy units per gun, per shot at the current recharge rate.
I'd rather remove all 6 and get aux gens.
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15 is too much even with current charge rate. 2 siphon will drain 160 energy from any ship. Most effected ships will be ICC since they lay their defense on energy.
Elf beam should be as it used to be. Drain already recharged enemy weapon or the weapon is recharging already. So basicly you dont drain energy from ship's energy pool but from weapons. I dont know what are the numbers to recharge everything on (lets say) battle dread. But (lets say) If a battle dread spends 20 energy to recharge it's whole weapon system after an alpha , elf beam should drain some kind of energy to force to battle dread to recharge again. Including jump drive as it was incluided in earlier versions.
Numbers can be tweaky tho. What would happen if siphon activate 6 elf beams on a smaller ship like dessy or cruiser? When that happened in earlier version , elf beam drained energy directly from pool.
The idea here , not to screw up whole energy system of a ship but letting kluth to have 1 more alpha option before enemy can reply you back with a space bar.
In this case, i can live with a 30 seconds elf beam recharge timer. if it is too complicate to implement , well make it drain from the pool and reduce the recharge time.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-12 22:30
Is that how it used to work? Messing with weapon recharge times? That's a good option if it's possible to do.
15 drain per ELF won't be OP with 2 more Siphons, because if you have 2 or more on you you won't be worried about the energy they're draining from you, you'll be worried about them blowing you to smithereens.
I do like the idea of them draining energy from weapons though and not the ship's reserves. I can't remember if that's what they used to do (too many concussions I guess) but it would so much better than currently. They're just a waste right now.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-12 22:41
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:59, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Elf beam should be as it used to be. Drain already recharged enemy weapon or the weapon is recharging already.
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Hey I like this even better!
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-12 23:00
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:58, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:53, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-12 21:32, darksmaster923 (3IC) wrote:
ICC ships get shredded at medium range by the Krill and the Ganglia.
Seriously.
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With the Krill, it's always been the case. Get the CD to shell it, or an AD to jump it.
As for the Gang, all I can say is it's about damned time. That dread has been a turkey, and it's about time it got some bite.
Your MD does a whole lot more damage. A single full salvo connecting can near kill a full-health Kluth cruiser.
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By CD I'm assuming you mean the combat destroyer, cause the Combat dread gets completely annihilated by the krill.
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The old CDread or new CDread?
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-13 02:17
I’m going to go ahead and vote no on the “elf beam stop your ship from firing and jumping” scandal.
While I believe MV will be the true test of the new layouts, I’ve noticed something.
Shield rotation puts 10% more energy to whatever arc you’re rotating too. Because of this versions buff to beam weapons, or lack of shield hp in the first place, most laser based ships burn completely through shields on the arc they hit and damage armor below. This happens even if you’re rotating as fast as possible. In beta today, I had a parasite cruiser alpha my front arc (I was in an assault dreadnaught) and bust through my shields and one plate of armor, regardless of my attempts to rotate.
I also dueled a BD (he had 8 AWM) with my AD (I had 8 ABM). I did everything I normally do.
I approached from 1500gu at 5gu/sec
When in IC range I opened up fire and set speed to 1gu/sec
When he crossed 1100gu I launched up to 15gu/sec (to dodge incoming QST)
When I got to him (within 200gu), he had 100% hull and 75% armor
I then opened up with full alphas.
When he died, I had 0 shields and nearly no armor, and 34% hull.
I was taking hull damage long before my shields were even 25% gone. I could not rotate fast enough to keep up with even a BDs damage. I can just imagine an assault class ship…
Based on these two incidents, my conclusion;
ICC AD layout is nice, as far as offence goes however, it lacks in the defense department. Based on what I saw, I no longer believe simply putting another active shield generator on it would help at all. Shields just melt away with this version like they were never even there. Therefore;
ICC, wanting to be rid of their last ties to the UGTO, opted to ditch cliché armor in favor of perfecting their shield technologies. And perfect they did. (all dreadnaughts and stations ditch their armor in favor of capital class shield generators)
Active Shield MKII
Capital class device only.
+20% HP over active shields
+10% energy resistance over active shields
+10% kinetic resistance over active shields
½ energy consumption rate over active shields (most ships will have 8x of these so…)
2x shield energy transfer rate over active shields
Defense mode;
8x regeneration rate
8x energy consumption rate
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-13 03:15
Quote:
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On 2011-05-13 02:17, Defiance*XO* wrote:
I’m going to go ahead and vote no on the “elf beam stop your ship from firing and jumping” scandal.
While I believe MV will be the true test of the new layouts, I’ve noticed something.
Shield rotation puts 10% more energy to whatever arc you’re rotating too. Because of this versions buff to beam weapons, or lack of shield hp in the first place, most laser based ships burn completely through shields on the arc they hit and damage armor below. This happens even if you’re rotating as fast as possible. In beta today, I had a parasite cruiser alpha my front arc (I was in an assault dreadnaught) and bust through my shields and one plate of armor, regardless of my attempts to rotate.
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I don't agree with drain from JD too. That's too OP.
Well, it's either buff the ELF till they drain more of your main banks, or drain it from your weapon banks. Which would be better?
Next, I already told ya.
The new beams are very powerful. An EAD drills through the Siphon's frontal armor in a single full alpha. I'd expect that beams alone, it will hull a Siphon in 2 beam alphas. The Siph already has the heaviest fore armor of any Kluth ship except stations.
It will kill your shields quickly too. You'll still need armor. Dropping your armor in favor of additional shielding won't mean squat.
BTW, the EAD needs to lose 1 layer of rear armor. It's too strong all around.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-13 03:16 ]
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