| Author |
Latest Update - Questions |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2010-08-27 20:13
Quote:
|
On 2010-08-27 18:11, Marius Falix wrote:
Pinging is one of the worst counters i have ever experienced. remember this was originally a bug. if it was 5 seconds long itd make fighting luth very tolerable. but thats not gonna happen.
adding more Anti cloak would be an ideal solution so a clever/skilled luth pilot can avoid detection. or they will be forced to fly smaller or more manuev ships to avoid beacons or some other anti luth wep that has yet to be seen.
|
|
I did suggest lengthening the expose time from a ping, but since it was a bug it's gonna be very hard to implement.
The only other way would be to slow down signature drops across the board (affecting even normal cloaking times, worse with beaconing), or make everyone's signature higher by default (does the same thing).
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-08-28 01:13
Quote:
|
On 2010-08-27 20:10, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
But that's it isn't it? Only Kluth DNs are really threats. Anything below that is not even dangerous. When have you seen a Kluth destroyer actually take out an equivalent or larger human ship singlehandedly or easily?
The threats are the DNs. That's what your beacons are for. And they DO work well against the DNs. Don't waste it on the smaller ships. They're not worth it.
|
|
The new Shells are vicious just nobody uses them, but really how many people have even tried them? I can go up against an ICC or UGTO Destroyer and come out on top flying a Shell, it's not that hard especially with cloak. Shells laugh at DNs, especially AD/EAD since they can easily keep out of beam range.....they use cannons/torps for crying out loud.
But yeah I don't bother with beacons period myself, I don't have a Recon and don't have the garage space to get one. I stick with a Sensor Frigate since it's also useful as a picket ship, especially now with the new PD changes.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2010-08-28 02:11
ok...gonna say this and shut up.Kluth cloak works just friggin FINE..leave it the hell alone.
ECCM however as a counter sucks hind tit.Pinging is rediculous as a counter because you need multiple scouts to do it effectively (IF the pilot doesnt suck as well).I said effectively,not perfectly.
ICC/UGTO need a single counter that requires a single ship not multiples.
fine...we have a good counter IF certain changes are made.
Beacons.
They USED to be trackable why not reinsitute that.But make em only 1 per ship( targeted ship),make em NOT affect sig,NOT stack and last only 5 seconds and rings stop showing after 10 seconds( from intial attachment).the times can be shifted as needed in beta to make sure that kluth have at least a 60/40 chance to escape.
kluth is still cloaked but beacon is visible.hopefully the combat will be in range and able to fire..if not,you lose the target.
_________________
|
Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2010-08-28 05:24
Kluth cloak is fine , no need to change anything there tbh.
I would like to see the SRR / Ewas ships actually come into play and work as they should and use the ECCM they have onboard to Ping (with same cooldown as other ships). This combined with the tools already in hand , beacons , pinging , manual targetting etc should be enough imho.
_________________
Code Red, For winning in the 1RA Fleet Wars event, here's your coupon for a week.
|
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-08-28 05:30
wow. You are just beligerant, aint ya?
Seem to have a bit of the "See it my way or you are an idiot" disease.
Read through a good few pages of this dribble.
Cloak timers, eccm spam, beacons, it all matters not to me.
I will adapt in a week's time, and figure out a way to pwn you anyways.
And then the begging will begin for the cloak cooldown to extend.
Staff: Never have yet outdone the balance that the original K'Luth cloak offered. These are still just poor work arounds.
Players: too many are incapable of using the tools the game has given you, so you need the game to change so that you have to do nothing at all. We'll go now from eccm pings and time extension to cloak cooldown. What's next, after we learn to adapt?
Start working on it. Make it something good next time. I'm tired of being more challenged by the game mechanics than the enemies' so-called tactics.
Fact is, K'Luth has its own version of "We shall Overcome". So do what you will. It really wont matter to most Luth players after a week.
_________________
bucket link
|
Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2010-08-28 07:05
Quote:
|
On 2010-08-28 05:05, Necrotic wrote:
The weapon is only as good as the warrior who wields it. In the end it doesnt matter what weapon is used becuse a true warrior understands. He is the weapon.
|
|
This is true only to some point (equal opponents or very close to each other). I would like to know what you would do with a RPG-7 in your hands 2m in front of a guy with hand crafted true Katana (this sounds exactly like ICC-K'luth comparison).
I also think you would never go into a war against rifles barehanded (no matter how good you are in martial arts).
To sum it up: If you don't get a tool you can use at all, how can you learn something about using it to counter your enemy?
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2010-08-28 07:10 ]
_________________
ICC in a nutshell
UGTO in a nutshell
\"I'M HEAVY METAL \\m/>_<\\m/ !!\"
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-08-28 07:37
Necrotic is professional level troll. I can't believe Marius falls for it. :V
_________________
|
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-08-28 08:06
[quote]
On 2010-08-28 07:05, Gerlach wrote:
Quote:
|
If you don't get a tool you can use at all, how can you learn something about using it to counter your enemy?
|
|
ECCM, beacons, high signature areas such as platform forts and planetary eccm clusters. K'Luth are pingable, and beacons can make uncloaking fatal because of prolonged time. Now add cooldown to cloak and re-cloak (personally, cooldown on uncloak seems dumb).
These are tools. And why in the hell does ICC act as though the only weapons they have are missiles? How many beams, cannon, and torps do your ships have/ and by the way, those beams hurt like hell up close.
Said it before, say it again. The cloak is psychological warfare. It's the not seeing. It makes people NOT THINK. Like as in, I should be pinging right now, since I saw that kluth dread jump in 1200gu away about 15 secs ago.
That way the ninja never gets close enough to use his Katana. You cant sit 1200 away and missile him when pinging, true. I know it sucks, not having a sit, mash button, gain prestige option all the time. It's what most ICC thrive on, so I understand not being able to do that ALL the time may seem unfair.
But some time you have to get in your ships and come out to the enemy, when the situation is favorable, and take the fight to him. ICC cruisers and dessies are powerful enough they give luth fits in a high sig area.
The fact that humans require a complicated system to hunt Luth that is not readily grasped by the human players is partly the staff's fault for the damned cloak change to begin with. However, they responded to this kind of player crybaby crap.
Now we have the cloak that was begged for, and nothing that we were actually promised.
And it still isnt good enough for some.
_________________
bucket link
|
Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2010-08-28 08:18
You really think it's possible to build ECCM forts anywhere and anytime? K'luth are not even that stupid to attack such clusters or they kill the ECCM first if possible.
Have you ever tried to hit a cloaked ship 1200 gu away from you with a missile, or even half the range? That's just not going to happen, you know, unless the pilot is AFK.
I do run away, when I know there is enemy around me and will attack most likely, it's just you can't run forever, you MUST face your enemy to defend your ground (and ICC does not have the people needed to do it most of the time).
Quote:
|
On 2010-08-28 08:06, Azreal wrote:
Said it before, say it again. The cloak is psychological warfare. It's the not seeing. It makes people NOT THINK. Like as in, I should be pinging right now, since I saw that kluth dread jump in 1200gu away about 15 secs ago.
|
|
This is what I always do, does not help that much, but at least gives a minor hint about enemy positions. I even adapted to use of right click commands for shooting pinged targets, it's still not 100% because it depends on player reaction, but it's much faster and more realiable than E+space. Btw, did you know the ECCM "bug" does not always kick in?
I never said anything about our rails and lasers being bad. When I know there is a kluth dread around me and I am able to blind shot him, I will do it until my spacebar brakes.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2010-08-28 08:55 ]
_________________
ICC in a nutshell
UGTO in a nutshell
\"I'M HEAVY METAL \\m/>_<\\m/ !!\"
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-08-28 09:16
Looking at the last page of replies I see the constructive juices that fueled this thread at the start have run out.
Thanks for the all the constructive and useful feedback players have given. Locking this thread for now.
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
