| Author |
[1.702] Release Feedback |
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
|  Posted: 2013-11-26 12:03
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 04:15, Azreal wrote:
Yes.
Its called Grouping.
This was put in to achieve exactly what you asked for.
|
You didn't read my whole post.
Combat ships, for example, can make their own prestige AND gain prestige from grouping.
Support ships (minus supply ships) can only gain prestige from grouping.
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 06:38, Borgie wrote:
suporting your fleet, while grouped will net you more pres anyway, and besides the game isn't all about your pres level.
|
It's easy to say that when you're a Chief Marshal, there's a lot of players that pull support that are sub-Marshal and it doesn't get them there any sooner.
Being a lower rank limits your stratigic choices, so there's an incentive to work towards the next rank.
Also, you gotta be careful as it's easy to eventually get demoted if you fly supports which cost a lot but make no prestige for themselves.
If a person doesn't mind waiting 10x longer to get promoted, then I guess support is fine?
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-11-26 12:04 ]
_________________
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2013-11-26 15:48
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 12:03, Fluttershy wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 04:15, Azreal wrote:
Yes.
Its called Grouping.
This was put in to achieve exactly what you asked for.
|
You didn't read my whole post.
Combat ships, for example, can make their own prestige AND gain prestige from grouping.
Support ships (minus supply ships) can only gain prestige from grouping.
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 06:38, Borgie wrote:
suporting your fleet, while grouped will net you more pres anyway, and besides the game isn't all about your pres level.
|
It's easy to say that when you're a Chief Marshal, there's a lot of players that pull support that are sub-Marshal and it doesn't get them there any sooner.
Being a lower rank limits your stratigic choices, so there's an incentive to work towards the next rank.
Also, you gotta be careful as it's easy to eventually get demoted if you fly supports which cost a lot but make no prestige for themselves.
If a person doesn't mind waiting 10x longer to get promoted, then I guess support is fine?
[ This Message was edited by: Ent on 2013-11-26 15:52 ]
|
I fly on new accounts specifically for some of the reasons you list above.
Grouping is a massive bonus to new players, way more than anything except combat prestige. I wish there were an easier and faster way to get players to group as its very beneficial for both.
Now, its easy to see prestige as what you and only you do, but grouping goes a long, long way. Its not as noticable, when you're CM. And prestige gain, when you are thinking about it in terms of grouping and support , and how important working as a fleet is - can't be framed anymore as just "you".
When you provide EWAR for a situation, you may potentially be keeping your side alive while at the same time, making it easier for players in combat ships to engage the enemy. Since there are a number of EWAR ships that are also combat, this helps.
When you provide supply, or point defense, its the same thing. You're making it safer for your fleet, and by making it safer to fight, you give them incentive to fight.
And when they go fight, you get a good portion of that prestige (and none of the risk that they are carrying), which is even more helpful for new players that don't have the combat capability anyway (or the prestige buffer) to make/risk that kind of prestige.
Support roles like this indirectly influence your prestige gain a great deal, but a lot of it is already on the player to make themselves useful to others, as well as the ever present responsibility of not dieing.
It's reasons for this that I believe grouping is actually a better facilitator than just giving support ships blanket gain or something like (as an example) trying to come up with a way to give player points for EWAR without it being a.) too little and b.) exploitable.
A better alternative to me, would be to make it so that Supply and other utility ships get a larger share of grouped prestige, as well as EWAR only ships. Something like, Combat = 10%, EWAR = 20%, Utility = 30%, and make that sharing within 5kgu only.
However, once again I will reiterate that dieing in your ship in various ways is responsible for all of your prestige loss. The other factors are so small that they hardly contribute. If you want to rank up, don't die.
And as long as DS has the death penalty mechanics that it does, that fact of life will never change, unless you increase prestige gain to the point that it doesn't matter.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-11-26 22:20
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 01:00, Fluttershy wrote:
I hope you guys can work out some way of giving certain ships a prestige multiplier so they're worthwhile to use.
Support stations, for example, only make as much prestige as a T1 supply ship unless they ever get a chance to utlize their close range beam array. They only have the single repair field device, which if I recall is exactly the same rate as a single drone.
Pure support ships such as the picket destroyer, Defense Frigate, and Covert Ops Scout to name a few need a multiplier to group prestige to cover for their inabilty to make their own.
Supports should benefit for keeping their allies actively and more safely gaining prestige.
Is there some way you could give certain ships a pretige multiplying gadget? I don't know the limitations of darkspace so it's really up to you on the final word, but I really really think support classes need some love.
|
There's always a risk of exploitation for giving certain functions like Support, Mining, or building too much pres gains for what is essentially low risk activities (generally).
You can tweak it up slightly. But in the end, the gains will still be minimal.
Grouping, as already mentioned, helps. If you're doing combat support, what's stopping you and your teammates from grouping up? Why not? You'll keep your combatants alive. You gain pres from repping them as they get damaged. Your reward for putting yourself at risk will be a share of what they're gaining from direct combat.
You're looking at this from a purely individualistic point of view.
Perhaps you want to build something up in a remote corner of the MV. Or mine an obscure planet somewhere far away, and hope to gain pres in the process? Lots of pres? Well... the main focus of DS will always be combat. So I don't think much can be done to make pres gains any better.
BTW, the Tier system has made larger ships available to lower ranked players. If you don't want to fly suppie, then hop into a cruiser or dread and go pew pew; they're are now available earlier.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-11-27 02:56
Ent covers basically what I'm asking for, that supports get a bigger cut of group prestige.
I'm not trying to sound like a selfish prestige earner, I use supports all the time even when there's nothing to gain except favorable conditions for my allies.
Supports can be priority targets, and making yourself useful and staying alive at the same time can be difficult. Try being a combat supply or EWar support when there's a bunch of K'Luth lurking. They WILL hunt you.
_________________
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2013-11-27 05:09
If you're in a picket destroyer screening missiles for your allies, and you have two people you are grouped with...
You get 20 prestige whenever they get 200. If each of them gets 100, then they get 110 prestige each for your 20 prestige.
Obviously it is a good idea to look to modifiers for these roles which are simply not rewarded by the game. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure if you grab a tier 1 destroyer, jump in, mash spacebar a few times and jump out, you'll easily have that 20 prestige gained.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-11-27 05:30
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 05:09, Bardiche wrote:
If you're in a picket destroyer screening missiles for your allies, and you have two people you are grouped with...
You get 20 prestige whenever they get 200. If each of them gets 100, then they get 110 prestige each for your 20 prestige.
Obviously it is a good idea to look to modifiers for these roles which are simply not rewarded by the game. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure if you grab a tier 1 destroyer, jump in, mash spacebar a few times and jump out, you'll easily have that 20 prestige gained.
|
If you mean giving certain ships like suppies and pickets more group pres, then we'll have to check with the programmers. AKA Jack or F.
As far as I know, one way to do this would be for certain ships to be "flagged" so that grouping yields them a modified calculation for pres sharing.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2013-11-27 06:42
Honestly, though, on a release feedback thread we should be focusing on the changes the release brought... 
_________________
|
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2013-11-27 10:30
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 05:09, Bardiche wrote:
Obviously it is a good idea to look to modifiers for these roles which are simply not rewarded by the game. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure if you grab a tier 1 destroyer, jump in, mash spacebar a few times and jump out, you'll easily have that 20 prestige gained.
|
players need to realise and accept the fact that not every do-able task will give them "fair" amounts of prestige. playing support and complaining that the overall prestige gains are pathetic only neglects the details of what actually happens in battles involving support ships.
supports may not earn much, but with them, a team can reduce the prestige earnings of the other team (whether by PDing missiles or helping a ship live to kill the opponent).
players need to work as a team. if some players are getting small benefits of being supports, the players should share the so-called burden of low prestige gains by playing supports in turns.
this is a game, so have fun, have tactics and have supports. no need to worry about prestige once youre beyond captain (captains in dreadnoughts..*shudder*), it will come with time.
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 06:42, Bardiche wrote:
Honestly, though, on a release feedback thread we should be focusing on the changes the release brought...
|
1.703 as it stands right now is an extension of 1.702, so its not too awkward to discuss both at the same time.
[ This Message was edited by: Forger of Destiny on 2013-11-27 10:32 ]
_________________
Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
|
Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-11-27 10:58
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 15:48, Ent wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 12:03, Fluttershy wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 04:15, Azreal wrote:
Yes.
Its called Grouping.
This was put in to achieve exactly what you asked for.
|
You didn't read my whole post.
Combat ships, for example, can make their own prestige AND gain prestige from grouping.
Support ships (minus supply ships) can only gain prestige from grouping.
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 06:38, Borgie wrote:
suporting your fleet, while grouped will net you more pres anyway, and besides the game isn't all about your pres level.
|
It's easy to say that when you're a Chief Marshal, there's a lot of players that pull support that are sub-Marshal and it doesn't get them there any sooner.
Being a lower rank limits your stratigic choices, so there's an incentive to work towards the next rank.
Also, you gotta be careful as it's easy to eventually get demoted if you fly supports which cost a lot but make no prestige for themselves.
If a person doesn't mind waiting 10x longer to get promoted, then I guess support is fine?
[ This Message was edited by: Ent on 2013-11-26 15:52 ]
|
I fly on new accounts specifically for some of the reasons you list above.
Grouping is a massive bonus to new players, way more than anything except combat prestige. I wish there were an easier and faster way to get players to group as its very beneficial for both.
Now, its easy to see prestige as what you and only you do, but grouping goes a long, long way. Its not as noticable, when you're CM. And prestige gain, when you are thinking about it in terms of grouping and support , and how important working as a fleet is - can't be framed anymore as just "you"
|
At the very least I would point out that group prestige is not insignificant. I have gained 70k of the almost 300k or so needed for Chief Marshal by grouping together with other players. It may not be as noticeable when there are only two people in a group but when you get up to six or seven then the 10% shared begins to add up.
-Sheraton
_________________
Twilit Keel Mountains traversed at last we met a dragon who spoke thus: \"Sheraton am I who interprets the signs.\"
|
Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-11-27 11:04
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 10:58, Carch wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-25 10:21, Fattierob wrote:
Flux wave is getting adjusted due to some stuff we've found out about it; the damage scaling was being calculated incorrectly. (I wasn't in the lobby for the final decision but i'm 99% sure it's going to get changed)
|
As someone who has only recently joined the game ( a few days ago, frankly) and flies UGTO, I should say that i've never managed a kill with flux field. From what I've seen the max is only 30% ish of hull (and that's after punching through armour with the torpedoes from my gyrfalcon; sure it's a lot. But not the one-hit kill that I see people talking about here.). Then again, I can't fly any real destroyers or cruisers yet, so maybe it changes as you get higher. That or the Luth who keep invading wolf are all flying cruisers.
on the AI thing, I have seen the Luth use AI assistance on us at some point, but I've never seen a UTGO AI warship. like.. at all.. even when outnumbered.
|
Yes, the AI spawning logic has been changed drastically from 1.692 in which the AI were constantly being funnelled into the central system. There are a few pre-requisites for AI to appear: One, you must have a shipyard in the system or server you are in. Two, the ranks on the other teams must sufficiently exceed the ranks on your side. IE: Let's say a chief marshal is worth 15 points. If the k'luth have 3 chief marshals and the UGTO has one ensign, which lets say is worth 2 points. Then the point difference should be sufficient to spawn AI for you. However, the AI will not always spawn in the system you need them in. The AI for the ICC once spawned all the way up in dres kona when we were all fighting in andosia. Also, the server takes into account ALL of the players on ALL of the servers. Not just the ones who are present in the current server cluster. This means that you have to be sure there are no UGTO players hiding out and not participating. In addition, I would like to note that those on other factions who log in with their Chief Marshal accounts and then just sit at planets and do nothing are actually being a detriment ot their faction because they are tipping the balance for AI into the oppositions direction.
-Sheraton
P.S. I don't seem to really notice the flux wave that much even when I am using my destroyers on the ICC.
[ This Message was edited by: Sheraton *XO* on 2013-11-27 11:04 ]
_________________
Twilit Keel Mountains traversed at last we met a dragon who spoke thus: \"Sheraton am I who interprets the signs.\"
|
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2013-11-28 07:07
Using a Proboscus bomber frigate
Everytime I reload my bombs, I end up with 1 less in the rack.
Reload the first time, I end up with 9.
Bomb those away.
Reload second time, and it gives me 8.
Working in Wolf system.
Has repeated 4 times so far.
Bombs reload in 3s. I get 3, 3, 3, nothing.
Crossing server resets it back to 10.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2013-11-28 08:32 ]
Swapping to a Cruciform. Had no issues with reloading. It gave me the right amount everytime. Swappped back to Proboscus, got same result again, at least with the first reload.
_________________
bucket link
|
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-11-28 17:44
Change the ship information in SY screen.
ATM, the structure is:
1) Ship name & Tier
2) Requirements
3) Description
4) Layout
I would love if 3 and 4 switch place.
There are many ships in game and I don't really want or have time to read whole story of each when I'm in hurry of finding the ship I need.
What Az reported has taken places for ages - the minusing bombs.
The game usually asks but it does not wait. After 1 second, it immediately tries to reconnect regardless what player chooses. When fails, it repeats. I click Quit fast but the game playbacks reconnect - fail - ask - reconnect routine several times. Only after 10 fails, it does wait to ask for my choice.
[ This Message was edited by: DiepLuc on 2013-11-28 17:58 ]
_________________
|
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2013-11-29 06:10
The ai system:
In luyten, 3 players on kluth. AI spammed 15 or more ships. dreads cruisers transports. That we could see. May have been more we could not.
Most logical thing I can do is log out, in order to help the other two much lower ranked players face better ai numbers.
Great system ya'll got there.
AI able to do this with no ugto players on.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2013-11-29 06:19 ]
_________________
bucket link
|
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-11-29 07:08
The only issue I see is that the AI uses too many 1 point ships, when they should be spawning in some of the larger ones like destroyers and cruisers perhaps a bit more often.
The AI is very easy to kill, mainly because they never shoot back.
They get stuck in an interdictor while on their way flying to a planet for some reason, they only respond to being shot at by flying in circles.
If anything, the AI is just free prestige.
If they could more reliably retaliate instead of constantly getting stuck in "fall back" mode, they might be more of a threat.
I don't complain too much when AI start showing up, because it means the teams are largely uneven and they're intended to help balance it out some.
_________________
|
Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2013-11-29 08:36
Have to recheck a few things before updating.
[ This Message was edited by: Guyton (Angel of Death) on 2013-11-29 19:17 ]
_________________
Yes, its scifi lore : https://www.youtube.com/@BlackstarLore
|
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
