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Krill |
Pegasus
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 434
From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
|  Posted: 2012-04-05 08:30
Quote:
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On 2012-04-05 01:17, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Hypocrisy in darkspace.... Like no other....
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Absolutely.
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Retired K'luth Combateer
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-04-05 10:03
Quote:
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Clearly, invest 8 AWM on Mandible results more efficient in economy aspect.
Within heavy beam range, Mandible is stronger than Krill at all directions exclude rear.
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Krill is a gunship, it's not supposed to be in beam range.
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Adapt or die.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-04-05 12:26
Quote:
| On 2012-04-05 10:03, Talien wrote:
Krill is a gunship, it's not supposed to be in beam range. |
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Actually I intent to say within torp range, assuming all torp hit.
The gap between 12 projectile & 1 extra rear armor vs 21 projectile is significant.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2012-04-05 13:38
Stop comparing ships that fight in different ranges.
Mandi is close range, Krill is Medium/long.
The Mandi can't dodge at close range, the Krill has half a chance.
You lose firepower, but gain survivability.
Deal with it, because you got something in return for what was taken.
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Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2012-04-05 15:32
Quote:
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On 2012-04-04 08:49, Brony wrote:
no. the mandi and gang both have a cargo of 6
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huh? since when?
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-04-06 05:56
Quote:
| On 2012-04-05 13:38, The Fridge wrote:
Mandi is close range, Krill is Medium/long. |
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Siphon is the only Luth close range. Mandible and Krill are both medium range ships.
Let's do some math.
Legend:
- All Random/AOE Damage is at 50% and all shots are assumed to hit
- Numbers in Parenthesis are multiplied by the gadgets level. Numbers in brackets are Random/AOE damage. Numbers in square brackets are falloff damage.
- Gadget level: dread - 6, superdread (dread2) - 7
1 SI (PSI & Energy): 5625 + (2587) + {1125 + (495)}
1 AM (Kinetic & Energy): 3073 + (477) + {1108 + (221)}
1 PSI (PSI & Kinetic): 319 + (54) + {144+(20)} - [67 + (99)]
Front Mandible @480gu
4 SI = 92778
12 AM = 85824
5 HPSI = 10 PSI = 14713
Front Krill @660gu
4 SI = 92778
8 HPSI = 9120
- Damage to Standard/Composite/Active Shield
Mandible: 100%SI + 100%AM + 100%HPSI = 193315
Krill: 100%SI + 100%HPSI = 101898
- Damage to Ablative
Mandible: 80%SI + 85%AM + 75%HPSI = 158207
Krill: 80%SI + 75%HPSI = 81062
- Damage to Reflective
Mandible: 120%SI + 125%AM + 130%HPSI = 237740
Krill: 120%SI + 130%HPSI = 123189
1 IC (Kinetic & Energy): (2227 + (1372) + {748 + (546)}
1 Fusion (Kinetic & Energy): 2475 + (370) + {653 + (130)}
1 Railgun (Kinetic): 265 + (40) + {102 + (11)}
Front AD @480gu
4 IC = 112928
8 Fusion = 46772
Side Combat Dread @660gu
2 IC = 49884
8 HR = 16 Railgun = 47120
- Damage to Organic/Chitin/Standard
AD: 100%IC + 100%Fusion = 159700
CD: 100%IC + 100%HR = 97004
- Damage to Ablative
AD: 85%IC + 85%Fusion = 135745
CD: 85%IC + 50%HR = 65961
- Damage to Reflective
AD: 125%IC + 125%Fusion = 199625
CD: 125%IC + 150%HR = 133035
1 QST (Energy & Kinetic): 3600 + (1800) + {2970+(2970)}
1 Proton (Kinectic & Energy): (3388 + (508) + {1076 + (215)}
1 Particle (Kinectic) 346+(54) + {143+(20)} - [59 + (86)]
Front EAD @480gu
4 QST = 112320
14 Proton = 106666
Front Battle Dread @660gu
2 QST = 49590
7 HP = 14 Particle = 27985
- Damage to Organic/Chitin/Composite/Active Shield
EAD @480gu: 100%QST + 100%Proton = 218986
BD @660gu: 100%QST + 100%HP = 77575
- Italic number is the peak value when comparing damage to the same type of armor.
- Mandible is stronger than BD, CD and AD at 480gu - its end-point torp range. Especially against reflective, Mandible harms EAD even more painfully than EAD does to it.
- Krill is stronger than BD and CD, but in reflective case, CD inflicts more damage. Krill is weaker than AD and EAD.
- People are whining about Krill because it's much weaker than Mandible within 480gu although its requirement is damn higher.
- Krill's versatility, which is explained for its sparse projectile gadgets, is arguable. Generally, when a player has honed combat skill until his Mandible manages to survive in most of the situations, then Mandible may earn him prestige more effectively than Krill does.
- Consumer's trends are always seeking for better product. Unexpectedly, the new Krill is not the new iPad. And veteran couldn't forget their epic battle with the old Krill - the iPhone 4S.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-04-06 12:36 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-04-06 06:27
So many numbers. I got dizzy.
Anyway I still prefer the old Krill layout.
Basically I'm proposing that the devs can do one of two things.
- Return the Krill to the old layout
or
- Reduce the rank/badge requirements to match either the Mandi or Siphon.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2012-04-06 07:32
Mandible is close range because the Torps could miss a station from medium range.
The Siphon is very close range, along with the EAD and possibly the AD.
And assuming every shot hits is silly.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2012-04-06 07:34 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-04-06 11:55
Quote:
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On 2012-04-06 07:32, The Fridge wrote:
Mandible is close range because the Torps could miss a station from medium range.
The Siphon is very close range, along with the EAD and possibly the AD.
And assuming every shot hits is silly.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2012-04-06 07:34 ]
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Stations move at 3.6 gu/s max now. Impossible for even torps to miss at 480gus if you angle it right.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-04-06 12:03
how could you possibly miss anything larger than a cruiser with torps?
you know about shift+space, right?
Small ship tried to dodge a huge cloud of torps, I det them when they get close and it blasts half their armor off.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2012-04-06 12:50
*Insert Tactical face-palm.*
The station implies that things can dodge it at medium range.
Some dreads and all cruisers can dodge torps from medium range.
You can dodge the torp completely with cruisers, meaning shift space is usually useless, since you'll be 50gu away from it.
Your playing against AI.
Kluth torps are slow, hence why you use them at distances of under 300gu.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-04-06 13:01
The rank requirements are there because it deviates from the normal K'Luth ships to the point where we believe that only experienced pilots would really be able to utilize it properly.
Having said that, GA and/or the badge requirements will likely be lowered slightly.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-04-06 13:22
Quote:
| On 2012-04-06 11:55, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
| On 2012-04-06 07:32, The Fridge wrote:
Mandible is close range because the Torps could miss a station from medium range. |
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Stations move at 3.6 gu/s max now. Impossible for even torps to miss at 480gus if you angle it right. |
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We could have a test in beta to authenticate the hypothesis.
Quote:
| On 2012-04-06 12:03, Fluttershy wrote:
how could you possibly miss anything larger than a cruiser with torps? |
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You could!
The speed of AM and Fusion is 60gu/s, 80gu/s respectively. It's like a marathon between a dread and a scout. The splash of AM and Proton is 10gu and 30gu respectively. It's like putting a cruiser inside a station.
Another reason that torp will miss can be traced to its tracking method. I don't know if torp was as fast as core weapon, would it be precise as core weapon. I just think its tracking is not really good.
Quote:
| On 2012-04-06 12:03, Fluttershy wrote:
you know about shift+space, right?
Small ship tried to dodge a huge cloud of torps, I det them when they get close and it blasts half their armor off. |
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There is a good habit that to assign gadget number and shift+number instead of shift+space. Cause when you set PD on, shift+space disable them and you have to turn them on again. It's annoying when you have to manually turn PD on ships with multiple types of beams. Besides, you only want to manually destroy your torp, you don't want to explode everything you launch.
Quote:
| On 2012-04-06 07:32, The Fridge wrote:
And assuming every shot hits is silly. |
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That's why it's called legend.
Maybe our definition about range is not coincide. Hence, we don't agree on Mandible role. My legend:
- Beam range (<350gu): close range
- Torp range (<640gu): medium range
- Core range (<1290gu): long range
- > 1290gu: remote range
Or shall we ask Jim to introduce official legend of range since he was the one who defined range when it came to ship layout?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-04-06 13:45
The Krill went from a "point at target and mash spacebar" ship to something that's more specialized, but I suppose since luth never really had combat ships aside from the Scarab that specialized in something other than "point at target and mash spacebar" it's understandable some of you would be complaining about it sucking.
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Adapt or die.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-04-06 16:10
Yeah! How dare you K'Luth complain when your top two tiered ships get flipped into your lowest, and you get nothing but a squishy cloak for compensation! You make me laugh, with all your willy-nilly complaints.
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