On 2010-08-24 17:44, Marius Falix wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-08-24 17:41, NoBoDx wrote: so if the humans put up their thousands of eccms, i have to wait for 10 (or next beta 15) seconds before i can reenable cloak because it make no sense to attack

well in that 15 seconds untill u can attack, ur cloak wouldve cooled down.
so i dont understand your point =\
explain please

On 2010-08-25 03:17, NoBoDx wrote:


I Don't mind the 10s cd for cloak
The Point is that i am unable to judge if it is worth to uncloak i don't have any clues if i face +10 sig or +200 sig
Without the cd i can recloak when i have the feeling it would take too long

So heres my sugestion:
Keep cloak-cd but make luth-ships able to fire After x sec so mater the sig

On 2010-08-25 05:23, Bardiche wrote:
Enabling insta-fire after de-cloak would make ECCM significantly less useful, wouldn't it? It'd only work to prevent cloaking, whereas right now it is an efficient demotivator for Luth to attack ships around planets: the high ECCM usually discourages them from uncloaking as most vessels can escape before they can fire.

Changing that also feels like a step backwards, I think, as it means K'Luth can uncloak and jump away with absolute disregard for counter-measures brought by the human factions and further makes Interdictors more of a necessity than a playtool... except K'Luth can instantly fire on that thing after de-cloaking.

And a Krill does scare Interdictors off easily. ;o

On 2010-08-25 05:37, soulless93 wrote:
kenny luth can cloak crazy fast even in super high eccm areas. Take the myo cluster for example(before the update). It regularly had between 100 and 200 sig level (depending on the number of suriving sencor plats) and luth could still cloak crazy fast there

On 2010-08-25 08:43, Bardiche wrote:
You have to remember, Kenny, this is to balance cloak. There's no real argument for a "give back". A few versions back, ICC shields had significant defence boosts making beams a little useless on them. They were nerfed to what they are now, and we were given no "give backs" to compensate.

When a faction is adjusted negatively, then it stands to reason this is done so to balance. To "fix" the issue of K'Luth uncloaking, firing, cloaking, they added a fifteen second cooldown. No longer can a Ganglia just fire its payload and then sit back in cloak, it has to remain visible.

To address such a fix with "we need to be compensated" demands the question, "And how will you balance that?"

I'd suggest "Okay, fine, so make ECM work only when not cloaked", but then I am sure that someone will come along and shout, "But hey, if you do that, we need compensation!"

It just doesn't work that way. They'd be endlessly balancing compensations and then compensating that.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to have to wait for full signature to fight, but it doesn't make sense to limit yourself to 32 structures either. Sometimes sense has to be abandoned for in-game balance.

I agree your idea would "fix" the "problem" with 200 signature fields where uncloaking is a nightmare.

I'm not too much of a fan for it, though. UGTO and ICC are fielding dedicated ships to provide the ECCM coverage. The K'Luth has the Worker and Proboscis with gratuituous amounts of EW slots. I think it'd work well to assume balance adjustments under circumstances where K'Luth field their own support ships to handle support.

We field Recon Scouts to ECCM ping, beacon and generally ECCM the area. I think it's high time K'Luth start fielding support ships to deal with it, rather than retaliate the problem with "moar dreads" and "make ECCM do nothing to our uncloak".

On 2010-08-25 09:38, BackSlash wrote:
FYI, the reason I don't scale the cooldown is due to the fact that the cloak time is already based on hull levels. This is not a NERF to cloaking times, but more of a enforcment of how the cloak is meant to be used.

The math (loosly) for cloaking is as follows:

Cooldown timer + ( hull level * cloak modifier )

However, this only comes into play if a player WANTS to cloak during the cooldown. If a player is visible (and normally would remaing so) during the entire time, then there's no affect on the player. This type of player is playing how I would like to see cloak used (a bit of risk involved).

All this is supposed to do is force a little strategy on the use of cloak, and not to determin how long a K'luth player remains visible. Bardiche put forward an excellent example of the Ganglia firing missiles. An annoying trend of which I see is the Ganglia staying at range, uncloaking, firing it's missiles, and then immediately cloaking again. Very little risk involved, very little a player can do about it.

This of course, affects other ships and means of fighting. But as I stated, I would like to see the use of cloak become much more of a strategic tool, rather than be abused in some situations. Players who already use it in a strategic manner won't have to adapt as much (and those K'luth players who I've spoken to - thank you for your feedback on this, as well as support and suggestions).

This fixes some of the holes in the current cloaking system without drastically changing the fundamentals of how it works.

The 15 second timer is just a tweak I made to see how it affected K'luth in beta. I may end up reverting it, or further tweaking the numbers.

Keep the good feedback coming please.

As a note, we won't be adding new functions like a signature detector, etc. Nor will we be refactoring the entire cloak system.