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 Author Wormhole fishing - needs to be banned.
Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
Posted: 2006-06-03 11:44   
Sure, Tractoring takes risk, yeah, but it isnt how the the tractor beams where intented to be used, so ban it too! Infact, ban everything that isnt used as intended, that way it will be fair to get rid of WormHole fishing.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
Posted: 2006-06-03 12:38   
Whing involves no risk? I've lost an AD, two heavy cruisers, and god knows how many WHCs because when the target came out of this end of the wormhole they came out swinging. I got tractored into planets by the stations & dreads that I was fishing out multiple times, so please don't tell me that it doesn't involve risk.
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ICC Security Council Chief Enforcer

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Lux (Polaris)
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 835
From: Asgard
Posted: 2006-06-03 12:47   
You can bet that no Raven will ever make a post to whine about certain things, if the ICC get the short end of the stick.

As I see WH fishing, I think it's a perfectly valid tactic as of now. Even though it wasn't meant to be used like this, as others have said, Tractor Beams weren't meant to push people into planets, ICC shield attributes and levels weren't 'meant' to be this way, Escort/Picket Dessies weren't meant to hold cannons, Missile Dreads weren't meant to hold torpedoes, just as MIRV damage wasn't meant to be that high. None of those are banned outright, by the way. I mean, what are you going to do? Ban the use of ICC shields?

So, as long as it isn't directly outlawed, it's a perfectly valid tactic, and as long as Coeus and Crim don't make it an insta-kill by shoving you into a planet with it, they can keep doing for as long as they want, no matter how much you tell them it's a cheap way to kill people. While I realize it must be very aggravating to suddenly be in an enemy planet cluster tens of thousands of gus away from where you were in an instant, I do think that it is a rather nice way to disrupt enemy formations and enemy assaults.

And of course, we all realize it wasn't meant to be that way, Backslash, but that doesn't mean that it should be outlawed outright just because of that.

Repeating what Bob said, as long as it's not inside a planet, and as long as the WH recharge time isn't circumvented, it's perfectly legal.


[ This Message was edited by: Polaris {Starfury} on 2006-06-03 12:51 ]
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Loyal Admiral of the Interstellar Cultural Confederation Navy.
Senior Commander of the Raven Warriors, the ICC elite.
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral

Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
Posted: 2006-06-03 13:23   
Large Beams were not meant to be used as point defense, ban them please
Either have PD beams or attack beams
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
Posted: 2006-06-03 13:23   
Ive said it once I'll say it again Wh's should be removed along with SY's they both have completely ruined the game. They are both instant action features and nothing more.

They are the main reasons I dont resubscribe.

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Special K
1st Rear Admiral
Angry Mob

Joined: November 12, 2005
Posts: 127
From: Somewhere between here and there...
Posted: 2006-06-03 13:42   
Quote:

On 2006-06-03 13:23, Beast wrote:
Ive said it once I'll say it again Wh's should be removed along with SY's they both have completely ruined the game. They are both instant action features and nothing more.

They are the main reasons I dont resubscribe.






And yet u are subbed...ok then...back to topic. For the love of everything that is this game, shut up...your wasting your breath...or, as the case may be, your written words. AS long as it's not against the RoC, poeple will still do it, plain and simple. And posting this will not get much accomplished. So quit ur friggin whining andplay the game. If someone Wh's u, pick up yer pride, grade another ship, a few buddy's and go after the soon-to-be-dead-moron who wh'd u. I agree it shouldn't be legal to do that into a planet/sun/star/be it what ever, but the point of the matter is, people ARE using it for what it was meant to be used for...TRANSPORTATION. Be it a friendly, a not-so-friendly or an enemy, your still moving a ship from point A to pont B. It's just too bad that the WH user is too cheap to wh u away from battle so u have to spend precious battle time to get back, but instead into a planet/sun/star/be it whatever.


Again, wh fishing INTO stuff should be banned, WH fishing in general not so banned. Making threads about what people have known about for a while is annoying and only makes this game look even worse than it already does, so just go and play and hope to what ever god u worship that the big F brings out the new version.



Rant Rave do what ever you will with this post...I no longer care.
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GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral

Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
Posted: 2006-06-03 13:43   
i was just in MV about 20 minutes ago and what do i see? 8 wormholes 1 near guyton and 5 near me after guyton logged. This takes the fun out of the game it really does. and after 8 close calls with watching WH fishing in action im just not gonna play until things start to be fair
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Griller_GT
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 813
From: Madrid, Spain
Posted: 2006-06-03 13:54   
Hmm... create wormhole inhibitors or give the other factions a WH cruiser.
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Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
Posted: 2006-06-03 14:10   
Or, here's an idea. Put a new parameter in the wormhole creation code stating that the closer a WH is to a celestial body, ending at, say, 250 or 300 gu, or maybe even 500 gu, the greater the chances are of the WH collapsing due to gravitic instability and erupting into the equivelent of two or three Quantum Singularity Torpedos.

Of course, then you will see psychos running around screaming Kamikaze and doing this to destroy planetary defenders. So, the only counter to that I can come up with is A: the explosion magically affects only members of the creators faction, undesirable, or B: the explosion is incredibly dense, affecting a small volume of space beginning at the WH and creating a cone facing the ship, sort of travelling along whatever forces the ship projected to create the WH.

Of course, as to this game ever being perfectly fair and such, see my signature.

[ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2006-06-03 14:21 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2006-06-03 14:42   
Firstly...


WHing does take risk, you have to be literally alone in a station in middle of nowhere to be 'vulnerable'. If you have a decent escort a WH cruiser can get shot to pieces very quickly.

Also, the chance of a WH being spawned on top of you is not high. Infact, its based on luck that a WH will spawn within your selected area.

If in truth that the WH cruiser 'supposedly' has a much more accurate WH, then what would you say infact causes that? What proof infact, do you have that the the accuracy of the WH cruiser is higher than stations other than personal experiance, because personal experiences always vary.

Numbers, do not.

Here however, I do see that it is mainly those that dislike the use of a creative tactic against them that are argueing against it, and not providing any real basis for it to be a an exploit except for the use of the WH to snare ships into planets, because that *is* cheap.

However, using the WH to place a significant military target in the middle of nowhere or else in the middle of a fight, allows for some pretty creative ways of using the device.

And it stops planet hugging. ^^



So in reality, since moderators here have already infact stated what is legal and whatnot, Ill reiterate :

Using the WH device to snare a ship without circumventing the timer is legal.

Using the WH device to move a ship into a planet is not legal.

Circumventing the WH timer to spawn many WH's is not legal.



And now I say, if you dont like a tactic used against you, then use it against your enemies. Unless your full of 'honor' or whatnot and call it lame. Then your just in a pickle arent yeh?




-Ent


Haha I used pickle without a dirty innuendo. I deserve brownie points!
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
Posted: 2006-06-03 14:48   
Quote:

On 2006-06-03 13:43, Twisted GothThug *P3* wrote:
i was just in MV about 20 minutes ago and what do i see? 8 wormholes 1 near guyton and 5 near me after guyton logged. This takes the fun out of the game it really does. and after 8 close calls with watching WH fishing in action im just not gonna play until things start to be fair



Actualy goth, I spawned One Worm Hole. Lets keep count here, okay? Righto. That Wormhole missed, so I let mine charge up. Troy spawned a Wormhole cruiser too, so we planned on Whing him there, and him wormholing the station. We did that, and we almost killed the station. Thats three Wormholes, each spawned legally. Now, we went to defending the ross 2 cluster, and ross 4. After being pushed back from ross 4, we went back to the ross 2 cluster. I grabbed my WH cruiser, and sent one to ross 3, didnt hit anything. I waited for it to charge, and troy came back. I Wormholed him over, but the station SY'd. Now, thats five Wormholes goth. Troy used his Wormhole to get out, thats six. Those are the only wormholes spawned while you where in game, and all where spawned legaly. After you left, I sent one more wormhole at guyton and red dragon, both in stations. I missed, went back to combat. That is Seven Wormholes,goth. You also said in the lobby, all eight where spawned in five minutes, which, as far as I know, seven wormholes cannot charge in five minutes.

-Crim
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal

Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
Posted: 2006-06-03 15:35   
Quote:

On 2006-06-03 14:48, Crimson {Fear?} wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-06-03 13:43, Twisted GothThug *P3* wrote:
i was just in MV about 20 minutes ago and what do i see? 8 wormholes 1 near guyton and 5 near me after guyton logged. This takes the fun out of the game it really does. and after 8 close calls with watching WH fishing in action im just not gonna play until things start to be fair



Actualy goth, I spawned One Worm Hole. Lets keep count here, okay? Righto. That Wormhole missed, so I let mine charge up. Troy spawned a Wormhole cruiser too, so we planned on Whing him there, and him wormholing the station. We did that, and we almost killed the station. Thats three Wormholes, each spawned legally. Now, we went to defending the ross 2 cluster, and ross 4. After being pushed back from ross 4, we went back to the ross 2 cluster. I grabbed my WH cruiser, and sent one to ross 3, didnt hit anything. I waited for it to charge, and troy came back. I Wormholed him over, but the station SY'd. Now, thats five Wormholes goth. Troy used his Wormhole to get out, thats six. Those are the only wormholes spawned while you where in game, and all where spawned legaly. After you left, I sent one more wormhole at guyton and red dragon, both in stations. I missed, went back to combat. That is Seven Wormholes,goth. You also said in the lobby, all eight where spawned in five minutes, which, as far as I know, seven wormholes cannot charge in five minutes.

-Crim




Which is all true because I was the station that went into and watched.
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights


Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
Posted: 2006-06-03 15:38   
Quote:

On 2006-06-02 22:01, Crimson {Fear?} wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-06-02 21:32, BackSlash *SL3* *Jack* wrote:
Over the past few weeks, wormhole fishing has become noticably more popular among certain players. I Am one of the Certain Players, and It is DAMN fun.

The problem with this, is that now, these certain players, are abusing a fault in the generation code to forcably remove dreadnaughts and stations from the playing field. If the enemy out number you, WormHole Fishing is a good tactic to remove some of the opposition.

The wormhole generator cruiser, has a noticably smaller random placement chance, and places it within 500 gu of target. A lot of pilots are just targeting an enemy station or dread over and over (usually two or more do this), and spawn wormholes untill they get the target. Because the hitbox of the station and dread are large, and random placement of the WH cruiser's generator is small, the chances of getting the target station/dread are quite high. I dont think there is anything wrong with it. For a WH Cruiser, there is a small chance that it will actualy hit on target. It usualy opens up 250gu, as happend earlier with you, and the pilot can safely move out of the way. If the pilot cannot, it is THEIR fault for going into the WH and what ever follows afterwards.

I see this as unacceptable. Because pilots cannot use skill to remove stations and dreadnaughts from the battle, people are now using wormhole cruisers to forcably remove them with ease and low risk - not using them as intended.Oh, me and coeus, only two active that commonly use WormHole Fishing, will usualy open a Wormhole, and if nothing is caught, we'll head back to battle. You may not see this, because you see one WormHole, log, and come rant about it, like this topic here.There are times where we dont realy have anything better to do, and will continue to open Wormholes.

Ontop of this, I've now seen (repeatidly) two ICC players (un-named) spawn wormholes INSIDE planets to try and instantly kill the target. Not even allowing them a chance to 180 and go back through, a certified kill if you get the random placement spot on. This is completly and utterly unacceptable, as it abuses a bug in the generation code. You should not be able to spawn a wormhole inside a planet or another ship. Faustus told us this when he coded the wormholes, and it's never worked properly. At first they failed too much, and now they don't fail at all. Infact, the chances of them failing are almost zero. Actualy, this doesnt kill anything below a station. Ask Feral, Coeus, Rangar, and that supply that was earlier caught. They spawn OUT of the planet and are safe. I only spawned One inside the planet, and Bob warned me. I told coeus, and we BOTH turned away fromt he planet.

This has got to stop. Not only is it unreasonable to do this, it's abusing a bug in the code, and this should be stopped immediatly.

- Jack

Asside from that, I notice it is Only UGTO players against this so far.

[ This Message was edited by: Crimson {Fear?} on 2006-06-02 22:04 ]





and yet...we find Crimson defending ICC again(and being a total *insert other word for donkey here*), which what is an exploited item. i was Wh fished once, and Smokey was about 100 GU in front of me, and the WH went into the planet, which is exploitable, but i went toward him, which makes it my fault(but he was WH fishing everyone that day, instead of fighting all of us regularly). i don't whine or demand comp....ever, but i say this.... either make ENFORCED rules on Wh fishing, or fix the WH bug able to generate inside planets. every side uses the WH fish, with ICC a huge advantage with the Wh gen cruiser.
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Zeritu
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black


Joined: December 02, 2002
Posts: 264
Posted: 2006-06-03 15:59   
Jack from the Track record Exploits only start getting Posted when one faction is on the Winning side.Wh fishing was talked about in the Lobby for a few week but the Posting about only Poped up when UGTO only had Sol left Why is that?

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GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral

Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
Posted: 2006-06-03 16:03   
i know why..because half the ICC are Drunks and alcoholics who find nothing better to do than be bored and wormhole fish....my advise DO NOT LOG ON TO DARKSPACE IF YOU ARE DRUNK! STAY OFF!
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