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General Discussion: 1.670 (Beta) |
CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-06 02:36  
A suggestion about ICC carrier Cruisers.
The old MK 7 was good becouse it has ew enuff to hide itself in a group. (least it did befor the ecm adjustment) We used to wolfpack guppies and ecm with one supply to attack ugto stations and dreads. Worked well.
Maby one of the carriers have an ew suit. Instead of cliche "do you want defence, or firepower?"
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Also.. I think there are too many aux generators in icc HC. Makes Def mode work really well even in combat. Furthermore, Speed enhanced ships get a real nifty bonus to energy use reduction.
I flew a full speed enhanced HC at 20gu firing all guns (exept torps) in defence mode. I did loose alot of energy while in defence mode, however when i turned off my sheilds, while still going 20gu and firing, I regained energy at a very high rate.
In short. Imortal HC
See im not bias
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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jamesbob Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009 Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-05-06 02:49  
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On 2011-05-05 11:21, chlorophyll wrote:
Quote:
| On 2011-05-04 16:06, BackSlash wrote:
All weapons have a point value with the new layout scheme, based on their intended usefulness. When we changed a lot of ships, what we saw were that ships with a heavy use of a certain weapon weren't as useful as we had thought (Torpedoes for example). We're addressing this by buffing or nerfing the weapons to where their point value reflects their usefulness.
I should also mention that, and by no means does this mean it was changed so UGTO could be uber, we also discovered that a number of UGTO ships (namely the Missile-based ones) were totally useless against ICC because of the Pulse Wave. This goes some way to remedy that issue, and to restore glorious balance into the game! |
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Then the cap point missle/fighter on UGTO should be at half value as it is on ICC or Kluth I think. Since the value of missle/fighter on UGTO is not as high as ICC and KLuth, will the MC be added more weapons to keep on line with other faction or should we consider missles/fighters is UGTO disadvantage?
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yippie so can we remove that good old carrier dread and replace them with something more useful XD.
considering ugto fighters are not used much (stations do not count nor does the battle dread)
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Enterprise Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002 Posts: 2576 From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-05-06 06:50  
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On 2011-05-06 02:36, Defiance*XO* wrote:
A suggestion about ICC carrier Cruisers.
The old MK 7 was good becouse it has ew enuff to hide itself in a group. (least it did befor the ecm adjustment) We used to wolfpack guppies and ecm with one supply to attack ugto stations and dreads. Worked well.
Maby one of the carriers have an ew suit. Instead of cliche "do you want defence, or firepower?"
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Also.. I think there are too many aux generators in icc HC. Makes Def mode work really well even in combat. Furthermore, Speed enhanced ships get a real nifty bonus to energy use reduction.
I flew a full speed enhanced HC at 20gu firing all guns (exept torps) in defence mode. I did loose alot of energy while in defence mode, however when i turned off my sheilds, while still going 20gu and firing, I regained energy at a very high rate.
In short. Imortal HC
See im not bias
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Next patch, Defiance's fleet changes faction.
The funny thing is, if the BC were uber, every UGTO that tested it would remain silent.
Right now after testing the HC vs. the BC, I can say they are an even match, with the HC having a very, very slight upper hand. I say don't change a thing. One aux gen is a big difference. Its usually the way with energy, you either have too much, or too little, and if its on par with its other faction counterpart, I'd say its good. Take that gen off, might as well play UGTO cruisers.
-Ent
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MrSparkle Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001 Posts: 1912 From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-06 09:43  
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On 2011-05-05 11:21, chlorophyll wrote:
yippie so can we remove that good old carrier dread and replace them with something more useful XD.
considering ugto fighters are not used much (stations do not count nor does the battle dread) |
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I would say wait on that and maybe we can get the long-needed fighter overhaul. It could be as simple as making new fighters that use the other cannons, or maybe sabot fighters or who knows. We have possibilities. All I know is beam fighters have never been useful, bomber fighters aren't used anymore and ECM/ECCM fighters are rarely used.
It would stink to have the carrier removed and then later make fighters a lot more useful.
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Talien Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 2044 From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-06 09:43  
Why do people insist on saying "If you use this specific enhancement on this ship it becomes broken, fix the ship"? Test the ship WITHOUT enhancements first, if it's fine that way then it's fine, if it's OP with a certain enhancement setup then that means the ENHANCEMENT is broken, and not the SHIP. Change a ship to compensate for a certain enhancement combo and you end up with a sub-par ship that's only decent with those specific enhancements, instead of a ship that's good out of the box but can be made "OP" if someone buys or trades/farms for a specific set of enhancements. The ship with that enh setup also becomes gimped when enhancements are eventually overhauled because you no longer get the same effect.
Not everyone uses, or wants to use, or is even able to use the same cookiecutter enhancement setup for every ship.
_________________ Adapt or die.
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JBud Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008 Posts: 1900 From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2011-05-06 10:34  
- All damage-orientated beams have had their damage and energy effeciency looked at and improved. Second tier beams have had their damage vastly improved.
Awesome, beams have gotten an overhaul, anyone had a chance to test this out yet?
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-05-06 10:41  
The HCL and AD are already receiving a slight nerf to the tune of 25% reduction of damage of what they are now in beta (depending on when you read this, this change might be already in).
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Xavier I. Agamemnon Grand Admiral Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 12, 2010 Posts: 357 From: Babylon5
| Posted: 2011-05-06 10:47  
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On 2011-05-06 10:34, JBud wrote:
- All damage-orientated beams have had their damage and energy effeciency looked at and improved. Second tier beams have had their damage vastly improved.
Awesome, beams have gotten an overhaul, anyone had a chance to test this out yet?
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every beam hurts nice to have rotating sheilds though
[ This Message was edited by: Agamemnon =CO= on 2011-05-06 10:48 ]
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CD/I.C.S Spartacus
HC/I.C.S Athena
CDD/I.C.S Achilles
Leader of the Exathra Alliance Fleet.
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Enterprise Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002 Posts: 2576 From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-05-06 10:50  
Quote:
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On 2011-05-06 10:41, BackSlash wrote:
The HCL and AD are already receiving a slight nerf to the tune of 25% reduction of damage of what they are now in beta (depending on when you read this, this change might be already in).
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To clarify, normal beams seem to have recieved a buff that does decent damage now.
AD's and HCLs were shown to be doing ridiculous amounts of damage, enough to the point that a Parasite was hulling an AD in a single Alpha. AD as in Assault Dreadnaught.
The nerf is a slight one, and HCL's and AD's will still be pretty beefy. Just keep in mind those beam oriented ships will now be just as viable as the alternatives.
-Ent
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DiepLuc Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010 Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-05-06 11:23  
Quote:
| On 2011-04-30 20:59, BackSlash wrote:
After some consideration, I figured it wasn't in K'luths best interest to have high splash. Since they fight so close to the enemy (sometimes on-top), a lot of the damage they would have dealt would be reflected.
The splash was originally on there due to the speed of the AM torp (ranges were marginally different back in the day). Since you now have increased speed, it becomes less of an issue of hitting the enemy, and more of an issue of dealing damage to yourself. Since you're engaging at close ranges (or should be), having the splash remain in there doesn't make sense. |
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Quote:
| On 2011-04-30 20:59, BackSlash wrote:
After some consideration, I figured it wasn't in K'luths best interest to have high splash. Since they fight so close to the enemy (sometimes on-top), a lot of the damage they would have dealt would be reflected.
The splash was originally on there due to the speed of the AM torp (ranges were marginally different back in the day). Since you now have increased speed, it becomes less of an issue of hitting the enemy, and more of an issue of dealing damage to yourself. Since you're engaging at close ranges (or should be), having the splash remain in there doesn't make sense. |
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You miss some points here, Jack.
First, you say K'Luth doesn't need high splash to avoid splash reflection, so does the the target. Because they are both at the same range to each other in the battle.
Second, it's Luther who should keep range to human ship as CBL is stronger than Disruptor as it comes to closer range. Compare to AD and EAD, Siphon is the weakest ship to damage when on top of station, thus human player has favor to be on top rather than Luth. Any closer approach than 150gu of Luther to same class human ship is clearly a strategy's mistake.
Talk about speed, actually Proton is the slowest torp. Using formula Time = Range : Speed
- Fusion: 640gu : 80gu/s = 8s
- Proton: 560gu : 65gu/s = 8.6s
- AM: 480gu : 60gu/s = 8s
From my point of view, travelling to the final destination in the shortest time is required to admit the fastest. In this case, fusion is not truly fastest.
AM = 120% Proton then how strong Fusion compared to AM? Would make ICC player go crazy to hear the truth. I suggest:
- Range: 525 gu.
- Speed: 70 gu/s.
- Splash: 20 gu.
- Damage = 90% Proton.
- Range: 555 gu.
- Speed: 75 gu/s.
- Splash: 15 gu.
- Range: 584 gu.
- Speed: 80 gu/s.
- Splash: 10 gu.
- Damage = 110% Proton
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-05-06 11:35  
You're not including the fact that Fusion torps can be fired at a greater range. Torps will be staying as they are - they're pretty much perfect.
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Fattierob Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-05-06 12:17  
Somebody should change the dev log entry to "Beam weapons are now actually useful ..."
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-05-06 13:30  
Reduced tier 1 beam damage (should be in beta by the time you read this). Tier 2 beams are unaffected. Still a large increase in damage (double what you have in release).
To clarify, this is just to those that have been in beta since the original change, and noticed that they do OMG LOL damage to everything. I'm not reducing them below what they are in release now, I'm simply lowering the buff I gave them. [ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2011-05-06 13:45 ]
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Talien Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 2044 From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-06 13:43  
Beams are indeed more useful, a very welcome update.
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MarineKingPrime Marshal Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010 Posts: 239 From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-06 15:35  
so kluth just got buffed with the beam update?
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