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Bring back the configurable ship! |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2011-04-25 22:52
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On 2011-04-25 22:38, Azreal (Ret) wrote:
core weapons would be on the non-swappable list, for sure.
What we are talking about is swapping fusion torps for am torps, IF you can get them. Or IT missles for Psi missles. Engines for engines. drives for drives. Not core weapons, specialty weapons, or beams.
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Sounds reasonable. But I'm still wary about the cross faction swapping thing though. Maybe human-human faction. But Kluth-human.....
Maybe it should be limited to just cannons, missiles and torps.
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2011-04-25 23:42
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On 2011-04-25 21:34, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
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On 2011-04-25 14:58, -Shadowalker-™ wrote:
So if we get back a more configurable ship, like what was stated above; will this include crossfaction?
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LOL. Cross faction weaps is the exact thing which should be avoided.
Would you want to face multiple Krills with 7 QSTs each? Fitted with 8 x Adv Weap Accels, they could decloak, hit you from 1200+ GUs, cloak, run around, rinse and repeat.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-04-25 22:29 ]
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Core weaps were never on the list in tehfirst place, neither were specialty weaps like flux wave and pulse wave. Although a UGTO cloaking scout would be LOLawsome... JK...
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-26 11:00
krill with 8 qsts would be a win, hell i would even pay credits for it 
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Phellan
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 27, 2007
Posts: 220
From: Red Light District
| Posted: 2011-04-26 11:42
The problem with the old way was never the abiltiy to swap weapons, it was the ability to hack the levels. An ED running with cannons is just annoying. When you could load on extra power generators it got staying power. But it was only when people put on Kluth drives and cruiser level shields that it became op. Heck, do that to a scout and it was more powerful than the ED.
Basically I don't care about the rest but I really dislike the obession with beams on alot of ships. When fighting mandibles CLs just don't cut it but with alot of ships that close in firepower is all ya get.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-04-26 14:34
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On 2011-04-26 11:42, Phellan wrote:
...When fighting mandibles CLs just don't cut it but with alot of ships that close in firepower is all ya get.
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Would it surprise you if I said that CLs out-damage K'luth beams at close range?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-04-26 15:08
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On 2011-04-26 14:34, Gejaheline wrote:
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On 2011-04-26 11:42, Phellan wrote:
...When fighting mandibles CLs just don't cut it but with alot of ships that close in firepower is all ya get.
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Would it surprise you if I said that CLs out-damage K'luth beams at close range?
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And use less energy. It's one of the reasons Kluth valued human factories so much.
My personal problem with current configurable weapons is that there's just not enough variety. An AR missile is essentially the same as an IT. Differing ranges, damage, ammo capacity etc. do not equal configurable.
Pulse beams, EMP cannons and bombs in the old system (RIP) are the only examples of weapon choices that give us true configurability. MIRVS and neutrons behaved completely different and each opened entirely different bombing tactics and goals. EMP cannons are nothing like the pulse cannons they can replace. Pulse beams are all but useless in an offensive role.
If Darkspace wants to give players real options for configuring their ships, unique weapons need to be developed. Not ITs vs ARs vs Sparrows, not Rails vs Gauss, not PSI vs plasma. UGTO have a real option with their cannons (let's pretend EMP actually worked though!  ) and ICC have a real option with their small beams. That's about it. All other weapon choices are too similar to each other.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-04-26 15:09 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-04-26 15:22
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On 2011-04-25 22:44, BackSlash wrote:
For clarification, if we would most likely bring back tech swapping, it would be in a limited form that would give meaning to owning a planet. ie, you'd maybe get one or two devices available, not have all available for a complete re-fit. We might even give the gadgets durability.
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Something like that sounds somewhat reasonable since one faction wouldn't be able to do the kind of maintenance and repairs required to keep foreign machinery running indefinitely like they could with their own.
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On 2011-04-26 15:08, General Zod wrote:
UGTO have a real option with their cannons (let's pretend EMP actually worked though!
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EMP/Flux does work, just don't expect it to do system damage until you eat through most of your target's armor. It's not a first strike disable weapon.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-04-26 15:25
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On 2011-04-26 15:22, Talien wrote:
EMP/Flux does work, just don't expect it to do system damage until you eat through most of your target's armor. It's not a first strike disable weapon.
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I'm not even sure how much of that it does vs a pulse cannon, if you've already punched through the armor.
I haven't been on the receiving end of EMP in a very long time though.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-04-26 15:26
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On 2011-04-26 15:08, General Zod wrote:
If Darkspace wants to give players real options for configuring their ships, unique weapons need to be developed. Not ITs vs ARs vs Sparrows, not Rails vs Gauss, not PSI vs plasma. UGTO have a real option with their cannons (let's pretend EMP actually worked though! ) and ICC have a real option with their small beams. That's about it. All other weapon choices are too similar to each other.
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What he said.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-04-26 15:49
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On 2011-04-26 15:25, General Zod wrote:
I'm not even sure how much of that it does vs a pulse cannon, if you've already punched through the armor.
I haven't been on the receiving end of EMP in a very long time though.
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It's a very, very noticeable difference compared to Particle cannons, hop in beta or scen with a friend and try it. You'll notice a slew of disabled systems if you take a couple hits from Flux cannons+EMP with little or no armor, it's just not as noticeable when you're not on the receiving end since you don't get to see what systems are damaged on a target.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-04-26 18:40
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On 2011-04-25 22:44, BackSlash wrote:
For clarification, if we would most likely bring back tech swapping, it would be in a limited form that would give meaning to owning a planet. ie, you'd maybe get one or two devices available, not have all available for a complete re-fit. We might even give the gadgets durability.
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If we don't have real ship loss, then this is the next best thing.
There are other ways to achieve a modding system besides the one I listed (which I personally favor, but hey). A less complicated and time consuming process would be to add static modding abilities to some planets. Such as, a permanent structure. Certain planets are seeded with a structure that is faction specific, and allows any faction to draw from a set mod list as long as they own the planet and the structure is provided sufficent power and workers and tech (read: tech way higher than 100).
Perhaps you could even have planets with structures for modifications that are completely new, weapons that haven't been seen before. Perhaps even deep on Procyon, there is a structure that lets you mod on MI gadgets? Now that would be pretty valuable wouldn't you say? Imagine how hard people would fight over a planet like that.
Throw in durability loss like with enhancements, and you have a ship that you literally build up the way you like, and every death hurts because that planet you got it from might be from deep with UGTO territory that you can't just hop over and get. The more I think on this, the more I like it actually. It'd have to be extremely carefully thought out so you don't get ships that are too strong and said planets with exotic modifications aren't too easy to get, but if its done right...
Think of the possibilities.
-Ent
*Edit*
I felt like elaborating more, because I actually am finding myself loving the idea the more I think about it. Let me try to explain how it would work.
Essentially, permanent, indestructable structures are placed on certain planets. These planets naturally would either be very far out of the way, or in heavily defended territory. These structures would have names like ICC Experimental Weapons Laboratory, or something along those lines. They are not built, they are permanant.
Whoever controls the planet, has access to it, but it comes with a price. A faction isn't going to give up its best weapons that its developing at the front of line, so in places like Sagitarius, you'd find things that a faction can afford to lose, and that would give its own faction a boost.
These structures would provide a set mod list depending on the faction controlling the planet, but it would be fairly easy to guess. A faction with an experimental weapons laboratory would probably give other factions the ability to mod on those weapons, and it would allow players of the same faction to mod on more advanced versions. Cross tech for other factions, modest boosts for their own.
These structures would have a modest worker and power requirement, but a HUGE tech requirment. 100 or higher.
They would have to be located primarily on planets that are known to be contested often. The right balance would have to be found on its own.
But what about planets deep in friendly/enemy territory?
This is where we can make homeservers shine. such facilities would be much rarer, one to a system maybe, and have huge requirements. For a persons own faction, they wouldn't give anything. Your job is to keep it out of enemy hands. They would feature weapons, engines, any gadget really you can set your imagination to, that are very powerful but of course being experimental, have drawbacks. Perhaps a new jump drive ICC is developing allows for exceptionally fast recharge rates, but they haven't found a way to reduce the consumption rate so the range is very short. Perhaps UGTO has developed a torpedo that tracks as well as a missile but are too big to have a large capacity of them. Interesting right?
New gadgets, new engines, things that you would think in war, an enemy faction is working on, but hasnt gotten it quite right yet to make it standard layout on their own ships. It gives great incentive to go out and try and aquire these rare, unique, and tactically advantegous mods.
And then you have mods that are outright overpowered. Yeah, we should have them. They should also be really, really really hard to get ahold of. Perhaps you'll have to fight all the way to Earth, get the tech up to 500, so you can have access to an experimental wormhole device that goes much farther than any seen before. You get the idea.
Perhaps if you go deep into Procyon, and capture a certain planet deep within, you might be able to mod on MI engines? We all know how hard it is to fight those suckers. Would it be worth it? It would take a team effort wouldn't it.
And maybe if the humans made it all the way to Sag Hottha, they might find something to allow them to better counter cloaking technology. Oh interesting indeed.
It might be a bit of work.. but who would not love a game like that?
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2011-04-26 19:09 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-04-26 23:09
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On 2011-04-26 15:49, Talien wrote:
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On 2011-04-26 15:25, General Zod wrote:
I'm not even sure how much of that it does vs a pulse cannon, if you've already punched through the armor.
I haven't been on the receiving end of EMP in a very long time though.
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It's a very, very noticeable difference compared to Particle cannons, hop in beta or scen with a friend and try it. You'll notice a slew of disabled systems if you take a couple hits from Flux cannons+EMP with little or no armor, it's just not as noticeable when you're not on the receiving end since you don't get to see what systems are damaged on a target.
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Yeah. I've been getting systems damage as what you described. It's cool.
The only thing is that the damage repairs themselves too fast!! Jack. Systems damage should repair slowly. Maybe halve their rep rate and see how it goes?
Imagine, if you're badly hulled and get fluxed/EMP'ed and your JD goes down. Woo hoo.... won't that be a scare? 
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