| Author |
Bring back the configurable ship! |
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
|  Posted: 2011-04-22 09:28
I'd like more variants personally, and little bit more specialization among ships.
I never liked the old system of modding because it caused "bests" to appear. Everyone just flew what was best and that was the end of it. No diversification whatsoever. You had 30 ships to choose from and everyone picked just one or two.
Unfortunately, its not that different now, just a little bit more fair of a playing field.
See, now the "bests" are the biggest ships. So in a way we still have the same issue. They're the best because they can do everything with few drawbacks.
With the layouts already done though basically, its really a moot point right now to propose any changes to the fact. But I really wish that a class of ship was a bit more specialized to a given role, and ships themselves didn't have such a wide combination of weapons (that is, a cannon ship coupled with heavy beams. Sigh.) Rank and badges should be a determination of options, not that the higher rank you have the better ships you get. But I don't think thats going to change.
So instead I'd settle for a bit more customization. It would be nice if you had more variants of gadgets to swap out. More tactical options if you would. Giving ships options are good, keep the same basic layout. A cannon ship is always going to be a cannon ship, but what kind of cannons, what kind of engines? It makes the game a bit more dynamic and interesting if you're wondering just what exactly that cannon ship is capable of. Is it fast with low energy or slow with high energy and no manueverability with heavy armor? Or is it fast and more nimble? Noticeable choices. Choices that make engaging an enemy a little bit more than just hitting spacebar.
Of course then you start running into balance issues and thats what it all comes down to. There is limited options because when you have so many variables it becomes very very easy for a good player to exploit them. An amazing player breaks the game.
In the end, while I wish I had choices, I know if I had them just like many others the game would turn into a storm of complaints. Its better this way, in the end.
For the meantime, I'll just be happy with more sensible, practical layouts. Can we have those?
-Ent
_________________
|
Frisky Dingo
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2011-04-22 09:37
people will cry even over a game of tic-tac-toe.
people will find ways to win at tic-tac-toe.
because some adapt better than others, this creates a seeming unfairness.
This creates more crying.
All people are created equal. But after birth, all bets are off.
_________________
|
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-04-22 09:57
*fixed failquote, sry borgie*
Quote:
|
If balance it what you are after, I can agree to that. I do not see how having some customizeable slots throws the balance off - if it is equal across the board. I do undertand the complexitiy of writing code, so I can see that issue........
Every faction SHOULD have its advantages, but there should be a counter.
For example, a Kluth being able to cloak is fine - but stop the auto repair while cloaked - let them limp away and rep like the other two factions need.
And if bombing an ICC planet, provide a "shield buster" bomb.
I am not saying have them identical is the best way - it would make the game too generic. I am saying if you are talking balance, then balance it. Where one faction has an advantage, provide a counter for the other factions to use. If I forget to take advantage of that counter, it is my own fault.
|
|
Customisable slots mean that you can swap cannons for beams/icc cannons for kluth cannons. But they are not equal. Did you know that gauss gun range is 1400 gu? Put it on a BD with range mods, and you get the ultimate station killer. Every cannon/beam/torpedo/missile is meant for a specific purpose. If you could monopolise on aspects you aren't meant to have, you would be unbeatable.
Factions do have a counter. K'Luth are meant to hit and run (which will be fully true in layout changes). They would do a lot of damage, get hulled, cloak and repair, then come back to finish you off. A hunter (mind you, a hunter who attacks loners or small groups) is not good enough if he cannot pursue you almost indefinitely. When medium or large fleet wars take place, the K'Luth are usually damaged enough to go 'limping and repairing like the other two factions'. Don't believe? Come to K'luth and be our guest.
Shields counter damage to structures, which is countered by razing, epicly mass bombing, asteroid nuking, lack of workers, lack of technology and capping the planet (which was occasionally not possible before 1.6).
When you talk of counters, you want immediate no-hassle easy-to-use devices that do one thing, and do it very well (thus making it OP because it gets monopoly). Scanners were separated from EW techtree because it was getting unbalanced how players undermine the use of scanners.
When you have a easily distinguishable counter, who would not use it? Forgetting to do so is sickly stupid (which unfortunately very few people are). Back when new ships weren't present, both the human factions used to get sensor ships and pingPINGpingPING for K'Luth. When EW ranges were reduced to balance pinging AND bombing tactics, you come here and complain how hard it is to ping (which it is meant to be, its a counter to the counter to detection, and even then you need some level of skill to counter blindfiring and unintended detection after jump).
If you want balance, please await it as its already in progress. The new layouts will be much more suited to their roles and current 'unbalanced problems', and be less of multipotent dreads (MD has nice EW and so many missiles, ganglia has missiles and cannon damage of a current destroyer, BD has so many weapons and fighters).
Can the topic be locked already? I'm happy with 2 useless posts.
[ This Message was edited by: Brahmastra on 2011-04-22 11:04 ]
_________________
Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
|
Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-22 10:13
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-22 09:57, Brahmastra wrote:
Every faction SHOULD have its advantages, but there should be a counter.
For example, a Kluth being able to cloak is fine - but stop the auto repair while cloaked - let them limp away and rep like the other two factions need.
|
|
the whole point of AHR is so luth can repair under cloak. it help makes up for the fact that luth armor only has about half the hit points as ugto's armor.
_________________
|
x_KiLLa_x
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2002
Posts: 186
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2011-04-22 11:27
Amen!!!
_________________
~ KiLL Or Be KiLLeD ~
_________________
|
Brundon
Admiral
Joined: December 09, 2009
Posts: 25
From: Florida
| Posted: 2011-04-22 12:31
I think having certain ships for certain things makes the game really boring. You should have the ability to change what you have on your ship. Otherwise everyone will be killing everyone with the same Weapons, with the exception of the few "advantages". Ever since it's been changed this game has gotten considerably more dull. Pre-set ships are what is killing this game, in my opinion. It just ruined the fun when it was changed. The point of a Game is to have fun. In all honesty it would be more realistic also if you had configurable ships because why in the World would factions have pre-set ships, that you can't configure to your own personal likings? You would really reach out to more people if Darkspace had a more personal approach. I think the point of Darkspace IS TO NOT BE BALANCED. It gives a more exciting edge to this game that originally made this game very unique. Even if it isn't fully configurable atleast make it to where we can make it unique to our own personal standards.
[ This Message was edited by: Kaus Auroralis on 2011-04-22 12:41 ]
_________________
|
DarkChaos {C?}
Admiral
Joined: March 28, 2010
Posts: 9
From: DarkChaos420
| Posted: 2011-04-22 12:39
just to bring my 2 cents dont forget the nuke/am mine AC or am torp AC xD
_________________
|
Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2011-04-22 14:40
dude yall the game was more fair then . it sucks you want to talk about being fair the reason everyone want to drive the dread and stations is for the fact dessie and cruiser cant stand up to them. back theny noone flew the dread cause they wehre a sitting freaking target dman CUSTOM built dessie would own it. that what made the dman game so much fun and yall ruined it with this new ship balance.
_________________
|
Nutsy
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 28
From: CT, USA
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:01
Customisable slots mean that you can swap cannons for beams/icc cannons for kluth cannons.
I just checked - I never asked for cross faction modding......... If that were to happen, it would be an absolute game killer......
Factions do have a counter. K'Luth are meant to hit and run (which will be fully true in layout changes). They would do a lot of damage, get hulled, cloak and repair, then come back to finish you off.
EXCEPT they don't hit and they pack hunt. There are very few Kluth that actually leave the area of battle, repair and then come back. They cloak near the battlefield, then they rep themsleves, then they attack. This would be acceptible if it was not for the fact their stats can also help in the reparis - just like ICC and UGTO stats can. As for weaker hull, maybe but that is countered by the ability to cloak.
Shields counter damage to structures, which is countered by razing, epicly mass bombing, asteroid nuking, lack of workers, lack of technology and capping the planet (which was occasionally not possible before 1.6).
OK - but dropping 6 inf on a planet of 32 enemy inf does little damage before they are killed.
When you have a easily distinguishable counter, who would not use it? Forgetting to do so is sickly stupid (which unfortunately very few people are).
Uhh...... yeah - and that is why I said it would be my own fault. Sometimes in our hurry to get to a battle, things are forgotten - including changing aromour based on the faction being fought and picking up inf for dropping on a planet / ship. I am sure that even you, once in a while, forget to make a change, then remember it when you get in the battle field - or half way there anyhow.
If you want balance, please await it as its already in progress. The new layouts will be much more suited to their roles and current 'unbalanced problems', and be less of multipotent dreads (MD has nice EW and so many missiles, ganglia has missiles and cannon damage of a current destroyer, BD has so many weapons and fighters).
Why didn't BackSlash mention this up front? It would have reduced - if not stopped - the useless posts!
Can the topic be locked already? I'm happy with 2 useless posts.
Can't be too useless - I got FAR more responses than I ever expect - both pro and con.
_________________
I don't fear Insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!!
|
Nutsy
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 28
From: CT, USA
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:02
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-22 12:31, Kaus Auroralis wrote:
I think having certain ships for certain things makes the game really boring. You should have the ability to change what you have on your ship. Otherwise everyone will be killing everyone with the same Weapons, with the exception of the few "advantages". Ever since it's been changed this game has gotten considerably more dull. Pre-set ships are what is killing this game, in my opinion. It just ruined the fun when it was changed. The point of a Game is to have fun. In all honesty it would be more realistic also if you had configurable ships because why in the World would factions have pre-set ships, that you can't configure to your own personal likings? You would really reach out to more people if Darkspace had a more personal approach. I think the point of Darkspace IS TO NOT BE BALANCED. It gives a more exciting edge to this game that originally made this game very unique. Even if it isn't fully configurable atleast make it to where we can make it unique to our own personal standards.
[ This Message was edited by: Kaus Auroralis on 2011-04-22 12:41 ]
|
|
Thank you - another player who agrees (at least a little) with me!
_________________
I don't fear Insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!!
|
Nutsy
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 28
From: CT, USA
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:04
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-22 10:13, Borgie (if its red its dead) wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-22 09:57, Brahmastra wrote:
Every faction SHOULD have its advantages, but there should be a counter.
For example, a Kluth being able to cloak is fine - but stop the auto repair while cloaked - let them limp away and rep like the other two factions need.
|
|
the whole point of AHR is so luth can repair under cloak. it help makes up for the fact that luth armor only has about half the hit points as ugto's armor.
|
|
It would make up for it if the Kluth Stats couldn't also heal them while they are cloaked........ Can they or not?
_________________
I don't fear Insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!!
|
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:09
Tael said it all:
Quote:
| On 2011-04-21 23:46, Tael wrote:
We had ideas for a customization system that had weapons requiring multiple slots or unique geometric space but that would have required a major rewrite of the game code. Time we agreed better spent on fixing other things. |
|
You know what DS need most now? Rich human resource & Time.
We haven't even had new cruisers yet. I bet if the customization is proceeding, we will have to wait for years.
_________________
|
Nutsy
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 28
From: CT, USA
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:09
I think we have beat this horse enough....... It is clear that there are opinions on both sides of this.
The fact that there are so many that agree with me - at least some - means that the game devlopers should look at this.
HOWEVER, the fact that there are some changes coming to the new ship layouts means they have considered this and are attempting to make as much available as possible.
One final note, then I am done: Mods (enchanments) are great to say that they should be used. But when I pay cash for the credits to buy them, then loose them when my ship is destroyed, it certainly reduces my willingness to buy more credits.
And don't give me the line of "Well then don't get your ship blown up!" I might as well stop playing if that is the goal. Even the best players have lost their ships, regardless of their mods........
_________________
I don't fear Insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!!
|
Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:43
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-22 16:04, Nutsy wrote:
It would make up for it if the Kluth Stats couldn't also heal them while they are cloaked........ Can they or not?
|
|
actully they can. my hive can regen 100% armor in under 2 mins with 2 ahr and 12% defence recharge.
_________________
|
Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-22 16:46
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-22 16:09, Nutsy wrote:
One final note, then I am done: Mods (enchanments) are great to say that they should be used. But when I pay cash for the credits to buy them, then loose them when my ship is destroyed, it certainly reduces my willingness to buy more credits.
And don't give me the line of "Well then don't get your ship blown up!" I might as well stop playing if that is the goal. Even the best players have lost their ships, regardless of their mods........
|
|
with that i will say play smarter. personally i see people jumping head on in to battle in to a fight they know they won't win just to get pres.
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
