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Weapon Racks |
CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
|  Posted: 2011-02-18 12:22
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*FTL* on 2011-02-18 12:22 ]
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-02-18 12:28
going to do this to a HC when i getg back icc
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-02-19 10:54
Quote:
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On 2011-02-18 05:38, Enterprise wrote:
I would laugh so hard at anyone that wasted their money on turn enhancments for an assault ship.
These are "situational" novelty enhancements, good for a certain set of tactics for a certain time. Assault ships dont have to worry about turning if they plan ahead, they dont have to worry about speed because they're not supposed to chase down ships.
As for smaller ships, turn rate means absolutely nothing when you can point jump anything.
-Ent
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As much as I agree about turn enhancements being a total waste on assault ships, I think you're wrong about smaller ships.
Coming from someone who spends a large amount of time having fun flying Scouts, speed/turn enhancements are the way to go (with the possible exception of a Stealth Corvette or Fang) because if you get point jumped by an assault ship or station you're going to die no matter what unless you can hit esc and shift+J almost instantly. I've been able to reliably dodge cannon fire from a BD at around 200 GU in a Scout using speed/turn enh, anything beyond that is near 100% avoidance unless you're being shot at from multiple directions.
Granted it's less useful on Frigates or Destroyers since they have better weapons, but for a Picket or Escort they'd be useful to give them better mobility.
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Cory_O
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 15, 2010
Posts: 104
| Posted: 2011-02-19 11:06
I agree, a scout with 64 turn rate and a top speed of around 39 is nearly impossible to hit. As for frigates, i think they are completely useless except when you are fighting scouts. They are too big to be as evasive as a scout and have to little hp to take hits like a destroyer.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-02-19 12:33
Quote:
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On 2011-02-19 10:54, Talien wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-02-18 05:38, Enterprise wrote:
I would laugh so hard at anyone that wasted their money on turn enhancments for an assault ship.
These are "situational" novelty enhancements, good for a certain set of tactics for a certain time. Assault ships dont have to worry about turning if they plan ahead, they dont have to worry about speed because they're not supposed to chase down ships.
As for smaller ships, turn rate means absolutely nothing when you can point jump anything.
-Ent
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As much as I agree about turn enhancements being a total waste on assault ships, I think you're wrong about smaller ships.
Coming from someone who spends a large amount of time having fun flying Scouts, speed/turn enhancements are the way to go (with the possible exception of a Stealth Corvette or Fang) because if you get point jumped by an assault ship or station you're going to die no matter what unless you can hit esc and shift+J almost instantly. I've been able to reliably dodge cannon fire from a BD at around 200 GU in a Scout using speed/turn enh, anything beyond that is near 100% avoidance unless you're being shot at from multiple directions.
Granted it's less useful on Frigates or Destroyers since they have better weapons, but for a Picket or Escort they'd be useful to give them better mobility.
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No matter how good your turn rate is or how fast you are, I can still and a jump on you at point blanke less than 20gu. Its not hard. One alpha, your scout is popped, frigates too. Your destroyer is running.
-Ent
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Cory_O
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 15, 2010
Posts: 104
| Posted: 2011-02-19 12:42
Quote:
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On 2011-02-19 12:33, Enterprise wrote:
No matter how good your turn rate is or how fast you are, I can still and a jump on you at point blanke less than 20gu. Its not hard. One alpha, your scout is popped, frigates too. Your destroyer is running.
-Ent
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Once they figure out how to get people out of dreads (which all of your arguments have involved you being in) I think you will change your tune. Also, point jumping a corvette thats travveling at 40Gu makes it nearly impossibly to point jump them if they are jukeing and turning. Even if you do they will be out of your weapons range before you could finish them off, or they could shift+j and be gone before you could kill them, or they could out turn you and be out of your weapons arcs (which means they no longer do damage) before you could kill them. But more importantly, when you point jump that scout and your jd's are charging the 2 or 3 dreads on the enemies team are going to point jump you and kill you just as quickly as you thought you would kill that scout.
My point is, point jumping a scout with a dread is quite possibly the most ignorant thing anyone could do in this game. Virtually ensuring your death to kill a scout is generally a bad idea.
Also, as i have done many times in this game. A scout has enough speed and turn rate to stay on the rear of a dread the entire time and stay out of range of the few (if any) rear facing beams. That generally makes it hard to point jump them since your ship cant face them.
It is theoretically possible to do the same thing with a destroyer that has the right enhancements, none of which are defence or damage enhancements. There ARE enhancements that have limited use, but turn rate and velocity are not on that list. Damage and defence upgrades are for space bar mashers, manueverability enhancements are for pilots.
_________________
I am the monster in your head. I am the phantom under your bed. I am the broken string when youre hanging by a thread. I am the darkness when the light fades away. When the buds of hope begin to sprout I am the harvester.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-02-19 13:05
Quote:
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On 2011-02-19 12:42, Cory_O wrote:
Damage and defence upgrades are for space bar mashers, manueverability enhancements are for pilots.
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Also over generalization on your part.
Defence upgrades and multiplexers are actually the most tangible enh in the game for the heavier ships. While speed enh and manuverability enh has their place for smaller ships, and certain special purpose vessels (Dictors, supps).
Just because you have multiplexers on, it doesn't make you any less of a pilot.
An example: A Scarab with 8 X AWMs could be very bad news for scouts. Especially when the area is awash with ECM.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-02-19 13:23
The cooler vs condenser debate has been going on for some time, and I'm surprised we're all just now learning that coolers only affect the time between individual shots in a single volley. I had always thought the two did the same thing but in different ways, making condensers better because of the +reduced energy usage.
I have condensers on my ganglia and it fires missiles pretty fast. I see no reason to use coolers, neither before when it was assumed they reduced time between volleys nor now.
Quote:
| However, the condensers are also using twice as much energy as the multiplexer, since the plexers don't increase energy usage to deal their increased damage. This means that once the condenser ship's energy runs out, the multiplexer ship will rapidly catch up, and for a given amount of energy the multiplexers will do more damage.
So, in short, while condensers will deal more damage in a given period of time, multiplexers will do more damage in a given amount of energy. |
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But isn't that the opposite of what condensers are supposed to do? It was thought that condensers were superior in every way to coolers because they increased ROF by decreasing energy usage, vs coolers increasing ROF by making weapons recharge the same amount of energy in a shorter time, making them use more energy.
I equipped condensers over coolers specifically because of that. I even remember asking in chat not too long ago to reconfirm this. And now I'm being told not only do they increase energy usage, but coolers don't even increase ROF the way we always thought they did.
The descriptions for coolers and condensers should be changed to avoid further confusion. Their incredibly miniscule and vague descriptions are obviously not accurate. It doesn't matter if the devs know what they do, it's the players that need to know what they do, by reading descriptions ingame which should be more than 5 words.
With def. power and def. upgrade I thought one increased def. hit points and the other increased innate armor repair/shield recharge rate. That's not how they work? I don't know which is which - again, the ingame descriptions are too vague.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-02-19 13:27 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-02-19 13:51
Quote:
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On 2011-02-19 12:33, Enterprise wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-02-19 10:54, Talien wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-02-18 05:38, Enterprise wrote:
I would laugh so hard at anyone that wasted their money on turn enhancments for an assault ship.
These are "situational" novelty enhancements, good for a certain set of tactics for a certain time. Assault ships dont have to worry about turning if they plan ahead, they dont have to worry about speed because they're not supposed to chase down ships.
As for smaller ships, turn rate means absolutely nothing when you can point jump anything.
-Ent
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As much as I agree about turn enhancements being a total waste on assault ships, I think you're wrong about smaller ships.
Coming from someone who spends a large amount of time having fun flying Scouts, speed/turn enhancements are the way to go (with the possible exception of a Stealth Corvette or Fang) because if you get point jumped by an assault ship or station you're going to die no matter what unless you can hit esc and shift+J almost instantly. I've been able to reliably dodge cannon fire from a BD at around 200 GU in a Scout using speed/turn enh, anything beyond that is near 100% avoidance unless you're being shot at from multiple directions.
Granted it's less useful on Frigates or Destroyers since they have better weapons, but for a Picket or Escort they'd be useful to give them better mobility.
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No matter how good your turn rate is or how fast you are, I can still and a jump on you at point blanke less than 20gu. Its not hard. One alpha, your scout is popped, frigates too. Your destroyer is running.
-Ent
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To point jump a HC moving at top speed requires you to be completely still or for you to have crazy good luck.
If you don't have this crazy good luck, congratz, you have point jumped this hc which can conveniently move out of beam range in about 2 seconds, and can dodge cores at around 500gu.
And many ships have point jumped me (the destroyer) and you don't have to run, 3 things can happen.
-Look, it was a trap sorry my allies have come to you while you have no jd, and one of them might be a dictor
-I get hulled, get out of range in a flash, and continue to pepper you untill YOU are hulled. At 600-700 gunboat can dodge most things, 400-500 for combat dessie. Combat des can also spam the arc of where it is gettin hit and leave with no armor damage (then it can jump to 1k gu and turn defense mode on, laughing while you try to sublight to it)
-The dessie jumps 700-1k gu away from you and continue its happy voyage, with enough reaction time this is even before 1 shield or armor is penetrated
[ This Message was edited by: SpaceAdmiral on 2011-02-19 13:54 ]
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