| Author |
[suggestion] artillery dreads |
NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
|  Posted: 2010-08-14 11:24
a new ship-class
Artillery dreads
(just the facts)
- just small sensor range
- almost no weapon for rear, left and right side
- special, forward pointing coreweapons
- realy long range (2000-5000gu)
- unlike normal weapons inaccurate ( even against non moving targets)
- projectiles detonate near their targeted location (or on impact)
- huge aoe
- heavy damage, IF the bullet hit its target ( rarely happening)
main purpose:
providing long-range firesupport and weakening the enemy, before the other ships move in (otherwise they would put some heavy ff on their own team)
pro:
- can weaken the enemy from far far away
- heavy damaging rounds
- can fire from positions, where the enemy can't see em
con:
- need a spotter
- main-weapons useless for short-range (range 2000-5000gu) -> weak at short-range
- easy targets for short-range battles
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- artillery cannon (core weapon) (placeholder name)
-- unlimited ammo
-- slow recharge-rate (20 sec per shot maybe)
-- bullet flying to a random point near the target (maybe {range/100*speed })
-- bullets detonate, when they reach that target (unlike normal bullets, who continue to fly in that direction)
-- IF the bullet hits a target, it should deal heavy damage (one-shot a scout)
-- heavy energy-consuption
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
maybe multiple bullet-types (need planet to switch):
- explosive
-- heavy damage if bullet hit something
-- medium aoe-damage on detonation
- EMP
-- stunning targets for a brief time or reseting their weapon/JD/WH/gadget timers
-- small damage
- radiated shots
-- small instant damage on detonation
-- huge aoe-damage over time in the area
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2010-08-14 11:34
Could you explain how these ships are sufficiently different in role to missile dreadnaughts that they warrant all the coding that would be required just for this one class of weapon system?
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-08-14 11:50
missle-dreads vs artillery ships
MD: precise destruction of designated target
artillery: damage to all ships in an huge area
MD:
- accurate (the missles do track their target)
- use ammo
- missles sd, if their target is destroyed/ cloak/ hide within ecm
- can fire while friendlys are around ( afaik missles have small aoe)
- range 0-1800 gu (except cruise-missles)
- missles can show you position
- MD can be used in close combat
- useful to deal heavy damage to a single ship
(forgot:) - missles will track 360°
(forgot:) - missles (and their tracking) generate massive serverload
artillery:
- usuable where MDs are useless (min-range 2000gu)
- no ammo consumption
- bullets will detonate at their target, and only way to avoid damage is to move
- inaccurate ( impact point something around 750gu to the targeted point (at max range and 15gu))
- huge aoe-range
- useful to deal damage to multiple ships at the same time
(forgot:) - bullets can only be shot forward
(forgot:) - bullets dont track and therefore should reduce the load for the server
~~~~~~~
at least, thats the idea 
edit says:
added "(forgot:) -" points
[ This Message was edited by: NoBoDx on 2010-08-14 11:58 ]
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GalaxyFalinzin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 06, 2008
Posts: 28
From: On a boat... somewhere.
| Posted: 2010-08-14 22:26
I -REALLY- approve this message. Would take a lot of coding but if it were initiated I'd love you forever. - Although, I don't like the idea of no ammo consumption, these being projectiles, which they would have to be to have such a large explosion radius, another thing I would like to add to the suggestion is that these have very low armor, or possibly no armor at all, making these glass cannons essentially.
Reason for Edit: Just adding my two cents
[ This Message was edited by: golden1583 on 2010-08-14 22:29 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-08-15 01:00
unless the artillery is launched in an arc somehow, i can target a point 2k gu away from me with you in the path
thus i hit you under 2k gu
2 ways to fix this, if it gets considered as a valid idea:
-arc shots
-make it not hit on impact but when reaches target (very illogical)
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-08-15 05:08
There have been talks of this concept (2 threads were made in the post-530 times) and each was defeated by the ace statement :-
"(Sarcastic) Its good to have a Krill with long range."
The concept of weapons is such -
Weapon (beam/cannon/missile)
Range (close/medium/long)
Damage (low/medium/high)
Cooldown (low/medium/high)
Speed (infinite/high/medium)
Tracking (infinite/none/medium)
Defendable (no/no/yes)
This is a general guide used while designing space sim weapons. As visible from the list, missiles are very useful, having damage and range, but can be destroyed. Torpedoes come between cannons and missiles, because of high damage. If you try to understand, you see how weapons are pretty much balanced.
Now, with the Artillery cannon...
Artillery (Long/High/High/High/None/No)
The artillery is better than the missile in two places, thus becoming OP. Make the artillery weaker in two aspects to reduce/remove OP-ness.
Even if you do, theres no guarantee whether it still isn't a krill.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-08-15 05:45
Quote:
|
On 2010-08-15 01:00, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
unless the artillery is launched in an arc somehow, i can target a point 2k gu away from me with you in the path
thus i hit you under 2k gu
2 ways to fix this, if it gets considered as a valid idea:
-arc shots
-make it not hit on impact but when reaches target (very illogical)
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shooting projectiles in an arc is difficult in space, because there is no gravity to pull the bullets back down
and dont forget: shooting in an arc means that you can shoot above friendlies, ignoring the ff aspect for such a bombard
the main idea with "Explode near target" ist, that the bullets dont travel any further and explode at the disignated point (maybe they have a build-in time which deronates em when they re near their target)
the minimum range should be around 2000gu so you CAN fire at something directly in front of you, but you have to target manually a point 2k in front of you (and hurt yourself because of the aoe)
the "no ammo" point was because i had some kind of "plasma bullet draining energy ot of the mainengines" on my mind
i open for suggestions
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-08-15 21:56
the point is the 2k gu min range is so that it cant be used at i.e. 1k gu and thus almost never miss, do massive close range damage, etc
So you are never really out of range unless you move out of the firing arc (fore), or you go away 5k gu
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-08-15 23:36
TBH, I don't think the Devs will ever go for Superweapons. They don't like OP stuff.
But for the heck of it, let's assume that they will consider something like this. Each faction should have an AOE weapon. Let's imagine something here.
It could be fun, even if it's frivolous.
Humans: Nuclear / Singularity weapons
K'luth: Big Antimatter weapons.
Now the UGTO already has QSTs, the ICC has Thermonuclear mines, and the K'luth their antimatter mines and torps. We're probably talking about strategic weapons here. WMDs. Larger scale versions of the current weapons. After all, IRL, we have 0.5 and 1 kiloton tactical nukes artillery shells, we have our multi-megaton city busters in the form of ICBMs.
We'll be looking at starship versions of mobile ICBM launchers.... or for the case of Kluth, boomers (SSBNs). A cruiser would be a better bet than a dread (primarily because it is more vulnerable when taking damage, but at the same time has more speed to use). Just like the other special purpose cruiser, the Interdictor.
Something that carries some weapon this powerful should have very poor defenses. A few PDs at most. Just enough to fend off incoming missiles.
The superweapon itself should be an AOE weapon that will travel moderately fast in a straight line, due to the distances involved. It will be a large projectile or a dumb-fire missile. And it should have a minimum range as well, so the effective range would resemble something of an annulus. Minimum range 1500gu, max 5000 to 8000gu. The projectile that it fires should also be targetable just like any other missile.
You can either mark an area in space to fire it at (manual/blind fire, basically) or a target... (ship/plat/planet). In any case, the weapon will explode when it reaches its target area, or if it hit anything along the way... be it ship or otherwise.
If it is hit by PD fire, it will result in a much smaller explosion, perhaps the equivalent of a station explosion. Also, it will not detonate under any circumstances under its minimum range.
As mentioned, having poor sensors, the ship will have to rely on a scout to enter the target area as a FAO. And it will most prob will need escorts too. The ship itself should also be prohibitively expensive in terms of resources to build; and losing one should also net you a loss comparable to stations.
Now, what about the weapon indeed....?
If the weapon reaches the end of its journey, or hit something once armed, the explosion radius could have a radius of 500gus. The damage done can be thrice that of what a station does when it SDs up to 300Gus.... twice up to 400gus, same as a station SD up to 500gus.
If you know that the missile/projectile is coming in, you would still have a chance to make an e-jump out. And coming in from over 1000gus away, ships in the target area would still have some time to do it.
Of course there will be interesting tactics on how to contain ships in the target area.... eg... your Interdictor traps them in the area until the round is almost upon you, then your Dico jumps out as the last possible moment before the hit.
Just something to play around with on a boring Monday workday. 
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-08-16 06:25
i didnt wanted a superweapon
it should be strong (thats why it is on a dread)
it should have an epic range
it should cause serious damage
but
it should be fragile
it doesnt have close-range weapons
it should difficult to hit something (bullets can hit somewhere between 0-750 gu off the target)
because of the serious damage, friendlies are in the same danger as enemys
dreads have a rather long JD-recharge so if theyre spottet, they can easily destroyed
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i didnt suggest the artillery-dreads are faction-specific, each factions should get one (Artillery-Dreads for every-one )
the idea behind the artillery-dreads came from real artillerys:
- long-range weapons
- (rather) useless/vulnerable at close range
- can lay a enemy position under heavy fire
- sensor-range much smaller than fireing-range
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2010-08-16 07:22
I should probably point out around now how core weapons used to be pretty much exactly like this; they were projectiles with huge areas of effect and dealt a lot of damage. I speak mostly from my experiences with the QST, but I'm pretty sure the other core weapons were similarly destructive.
For some reason, they were mostly fitted on assault dreads.
Of course, the problem with them was that they could kill everything up and including destroyers in a single shot (even in the days of ships having stupendous amounts of armour/shields), even if they missed by a large margin and were manually detonated. If there was a group of core-weapon-firing ships sitting at a distance, it was trivially easy to kill or severely damage all of the defenders of a planet since they couldn't hide anywhere. Even if you couldn't see the defending ships, you could just shoot at the planet until you got a spam of "SERVER: Newb McNewbie has been destroyed by Deathspam Killasaur!"
Missile ships already fulfil the position of artillery; they have an enforceable minimum range (the missiles don't arm before they've travelled X gu), they require a sensor lock to fire precisely, they have a modest area-of-effect in the form of PCMs and simple saturation fire, as well as all missiles having a blast radius, and they can even arc over allied ships. AND they have the advantage of homing in even if the enemy ship moves, which cannons don't.
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Lawman
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 28, 2003
Posts: 276
From: New Jersey
| Posted: 2010-08-16 07:25
Basically the idea is too use these things to dislodge planet hugging fleets and force em into the open.
And troll station spammers in the most poetic way possible.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-08-16 09:38
@Gejaheline
i used core-weapons because they are only on dreads + stations
the idea wasnt that a fleet of artillery-dreads sit near a planet and keep firering till someone spawns there and get vaporised within seconds
the idea is that some artillery-dreads open fire on a enemy fleet to damage them -> the enemy fleet will (should) move, if they're under fire. after that the friends of the artillery move in to finish the enemys and artillery cease fire (because of FF)
if the enemy fleet is hugging at a planet, they can try to guess where the bullets come from (direction) and try to hide on the other side of the planet
if they're in outer space, they just have to move/jump in any direction and have to be tracked/dictored again
the bullets wasnt ment do be devastating (kenny suggested dmg similar to a exploding station)
they were ment do make damage in a greater area (hitting more targets and doing therefore more damage) and only if a ship is hit directly the damage should be painful the only ships that could be hit are probably stations, cause they have a rather big shape
oh, forgot:
missles (and mines / torps / core-weapons) have a aoe but it is rather small
[ This Message was edited by: NoBoDx on 2010-08-16 10:11 ]
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-08-16 18:25
We are trying to limit the actual engagement ranges to under 2000gu.
While it is a nice concept this is not in the direction we are currently going.
Putting this suggestion in the fridge.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-08-16 18:27
Not going to happen as per what Eledore stated above.
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