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Too many big ships aka DreadStation Space |
Challenger
Marshal
Joined: March 28, 2002
Posts: 886
|  Posted: 2010-02-09 23:59
Quote:
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On 2010-02-09 23:48, Pakhos wrote:
damn complicated issue....
I got another idea for u guys...
Why not level every ship and it's device depends on player actual rank?
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Well more coding more work and all the newer people would be obselete in the game until they ranked up. The game should be playable by newer people. The game is playable now if you look at the entire game. People only really talk about the MV but should newer people be in the MV?
We used to have a small economy system in the game where you mined or turned in items dropped by other ships. Sold them to starports and made credits and you could upgrade your ships by spending credits. Newer people should be able to have better items IMO they would get a taste of what they could have if they subbed and ranked up getting bigger ships and are able to upgrade them.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-02-10 00:03
It may be my way of playing, but it was how the game was pretty much treated to play as until this version (which I so rightly detest because it is different).
And many others too, obviously, not many oldies left.
I respect that you have a certain view of the game and how you wish to play it and as everyone does too, but that doesn't say you should get together with four friends, start a game of Monopoly and then try and tell everyone else that even though you know what Monopoly is supposed to be about, you still prefer to take the little character pieces and play the Sims with them.
Which is all very well. As long as everyone else gets to play Monopoly too.
Which is really just my point. Big ships are appealing to alot of people but it just does not make the game work at all the way it was intended to work with the majority in them. It wouldn't matter if being in a Dreadnaught meant instead of being the best at everything you were just good at dealing alot of burst damage to other big ships while having alot of surviability.
Or instead of being in a station meaning you were unkillable you provide alot of support through repair, resupply, long range defense, etc. But it all falls apart when everyone has too much of it. It breaks the game and turns it into a sandbox shooter.
Which is alright if you like that sort of thing but something tells me that given that there is other things to do in DS that wasnt what it was built to be.
As for resources, I could honestly care less about them if there were a demand for ships other than the big ones. But since thats all there is, something has to be done. If your whole play experience revolves around getting a Dreadnaught (and the same for everyone who feels this way) its really no surprise DS isn't going anywhere in terms of player numbers.
-Ent
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Challenger
Marshal
Joined: March 28, 2002
Posts: 886
| Posted: 2010-02-10 00:18
I can agree with that. I will admit I am in a dread or a station a lot. But 50% of the time it isnt for combat. It is for running PD for assisting the team with bombing. Or it is for running supply with the comfort of not worrying about being alpha striked once and dying (being in a supply ship). I do not see many other people besides me who actually use a Command Dread. I choose to use these bigger ships for PD/supply/building becuase it is more protection for me in the MV. Yes they offer a bigger combat option for me but its sole reason for being there isnt for combat.
I feel I need to justify a little bit why I use the bigger ships because I know it is a issue with people that there are those like me who use them all the time. I just want to point out though it isnt always because of combat and people need to realise that. Granted the majority of people who sit in nothing other then dreads all day/night do it so they have superior firepower not everyone does it for that reason.
You know there is another aspect to the game that people do not talk about a lot, the senerio server. Take a look at that and see that there are rarely dreads or stations. Hell sometimes rarely even cruisers but the senerio servers work and people have fun on them. I play them as well to take a break form the MV and the bigger ships I will admit. and that works for the Senerio servers. The MV is bigger and a lot more happens there and the bigger ships seem to work there. People who do not like the bigger ships why dont they just stick to the senerio servers? Is it frustrating that they reset and seems pointless? Then could it be considered to have a server up that caps at cruisers, would that fix some of the issues that people are having?
I do remember having those servers and people played on them. I am pretty sure that they reseted but why not consider having a server dedicated to running long term like the MV but litmiting to criuiser ships.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-02-10 00:33
And that right there, proves why big ships are so numerous. They can do everything. If you need combat? Get a Dread. Best combat ships.
Bombing? Engineer? Command Dread will do that.
Need supply? Station will take care of that.
And even though small ships in some areas can do it better, they don't have nearly as much surviability or versatility. A Command Station can build, supply, and fight. And be pretty hard to kill too.
And like I said, it would not matter in the least if everyone were not in them.
I kind of find it funny that you suggest that perhaps the MV should just be for those big ships. Maybe to make everyone happy you can only spawn Dreads and Stations in the MV and only up to cruisers in Scenario.
I wonder which would have the most players enjoying themselves by the end of the day.
-Ent
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-02-10 07:20
If we start punishing people for using the big ships, by making it harder for them to get one out. Then whats the point in reaching anything above VA (or admiral in Luth)? From there on out its all dreads and stations, all of which are vary powerful. Thats the point of a dread, its pure combat, big ship vs big ship. Massively big battles with gigantic explosions, thats what dread/station combat IS. Its a lot of fun too when you have those big boys slugging it out, and sometimes those little ships will tip the balance for, or against you. Stations are the true masters of everything, able to do it all, Build, Fight, supply and bomb. They are massive feats of engineering, causing massive destruction as well. The Sector Command Base and its variants are mostly in the supporting roll of things. Yes it can fight but its not the best at it, for ICC its only got 3 IC (that shoot) 3 HCL, 6 CL and 8 fighters. All of which are meant to be mostly defensive, and it is. Rarely will you see one in an offensive roll unless its fighter bombing. In which then its defensive capability's are severely limited to its IC and HCL to defend it. It can build but it mind as well not have one at it 1 drone just doesn't cut it. If the player could decide to have either reloads or build drones (just make them swappable) then it could be much more diverse in its rolls.
The line station/Battle station/Nest are the combat stations. Made for the true front lines where the fighting will be its fiercest. They are vary powerful to each other and dreads but are severely limited to hitting cruisers and below. As such those smaller ships are the counters to them, when in a fleet you would have 2-3 combat stations, 4-5 assault dreads or combat dreads. Supported by several smaller ships ranging from destroyer, supply and cruiser. That is a fleet and it dose occur much more often now, as the vets of the game are starting to leave the game, one by one.
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nicklane1
2nd Rear Admiral
Joined: October 03, 2009
Posts: 112
From: Eating your cheese behind you.
| Posted: 2010-02-10 07:28
i strongly agree with the idea there are to many stations and dreads, dreads are meant to be a captial ship for a fleet, not something that everyone uses, stations are meant to be a ship that can support the fleet and soak up damage, not an ultimate combat ship with 3 other stations in support, i personaly think there should be a 1 station 2 dread limit to each faction so a faction isent agianst 3 stations and 5 dreads knocking on there door
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-02-10 09:06
If i've unlocked the pres to get a Station, I'm entitled to use it.
Also, defending a planet requires a lot less firepower then trying to take it.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2010-02-10 09:07 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-02-10 11:54
Quote:
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On 2010-02-09 23:59, Challenger wrote:
Well more coding more work and all the newer people would be obselete in the game until they ranked up. The game should be playable by newer people. The game is playable now if you look at the entire game. People only really talk about the MV but should newer people be in the MV?
We used to have a small economy system in the game where you mined or turned in items dropped by other ships. Sold them to starports and made credits and you could upgrade your ships by spending credits. Newer people should be able to have better items IMO they would get a taste of what they could have if they subbed and ranked up getting bigger ships and are able to upgrade them.
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Isnt it the same we are having now? Topic is too many big ships. Newer people are already obselete in this game.
Lets say , if we could get gagdet level by player rank (automaticly set by server) we could fly some small ships. most of the people says "why to limit high rank players to pull a dread if they really earned it?" Using the same logic , why my scout is the same as one of a newbie ?Well i would be happy to fly a smaller ship with a gagdet level of marshall.
This wont be only encourage people using destroyers also will help to diversity of ships in game.
Also factory and starport system you are saying isnt gonna happen. They simply say no to modding. So i cant see why we would have factories/starport back into game if we only will buy resources from there to transport between planets.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2010-02-10 12:29
*sigh* I'l iterate it one last time, you can spawn whatever you want, just not wherever.
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Meoiswa
Admiral
Joined: September 21, 2005
Posts: 13
From: Venezuela
| Posted: 2010-02-10 16:23
I strongly suggest making the larger ships more combat-oriented and the smallers more tactical-oriented.
That way you cant have 2 stations repairing 3 dreads, while 2 of them bomb a planet. You would need the assistance of suply ships, bombers (im not saying REMOVE THE BOMBER DRED! but more like, make it less practical to use) scouts to use sensors, and such.
Regarding the more level = better ship; doesnt seem to appealing to me, since this is a game thats oriented on skill and tactics, not on whos the better junkie and has the better rank, therefore is more powerfull (*cough* WoW *cough*)
A crazy idea would be to enable, just like in player slots, the top rankeds are worth more less-rankeds, some sort of "tech tree" were larger ships would get unlocked when smaller ones are deployed.
For example scouts, frigates, suplies and transports can be deployed anytime, but for having a destroyer, someone from your team (and perhaps the other team too) has to have at least one of the previously mentioned, therefore avoiding a team of 3 players using 3 dreads, but more like a suply (or sensor scout) a destroyer and a cruiser.
However, there will be always people wanting to skirmish dreads or stations, therefore i suggest opening a combat server, focused on skirmishing, but that rewards less prestige or has some other drawback to avoit all players permanently playing on it
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Challenger
Marshal
Joined: March 28, 2002
Posts: 886
| Posted: 2010-02-10 19:06
So what about those time where I log into the MV and find that I am the only player on.... Your proposal is that I need to be out there in a scout/frigit/transport/supply...... and what am I supposed to get accomplished then?
It has been countless times now when I log on and find myself alone. Or what if there is one or two other people but they have their own agenda. So now I cannot get any ships to accomplish anything that I WANT to do. Sort of forcing me to hang out with these other people and do what they are doing.
I really dont think there is enough players to have a system where you need 3 ships out in order to get a cruiser........ 3 cruisers to et a dread......... 3 dreads to get a station.
Then it comes back to well what is the point in having a ranking system at all if you can only get into your capital ships a fraction of the time that you play the game.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2010-02-10 21:32
If you're alone, theres no need to conserve resources at the moment unless you somehow manage to spawn 5 stations under 5 minutes... You all act as if planets don't generate more resouce.
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U.S.S. Arizona NCC-42357
Captain
Joined: February 18, 2007
Posts: 7
| Posted: 2010-02-10 22:38
i myself back in the 1.483 days flew a dread, but mainly stuck to my heavy and assault criusers or even a corvette. the loss of a dread back then was pretty steep, even now i still fly corvettes and i guess i'm even crazy enough to take cruisers, dreads and stations on in them. but i guess i'm used to fighting in Sag. now
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Hellza - Dark Master
Fleet Admiral
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: June 06, 2004
Posts: 498
| Posted: 2010-02-11 00:47
Quote:
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On 2010-02-10 12:29, Sens wrote:
*sigh* I'l iterate it one last time, you can spawn whatever you want, just not wherever.
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removing SY'ds as well as stoppping players able to spawn at transfer gates would stop that 
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-02-11 01:17
Quote:
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On 2010-02-10 19:06, Challenger wrote:
So what about those time where I log into the MV and find that I am the only player on.... Your proposal is that I need to be out there in a scout/frigit/transport/supply...... and what am I supposed to get accomplished then?
It has been countless times now when I log on and find myself alone. Or what if there is one or two other people but they have their own agenda. So now I cannot get any ships to accomplish anything that I WANT to do. Sort of forcing me to hang out with these other people and do what they are doing.
I really dont think there is enough players to have a system where you need 3 ships out in order to get a cruiser........ 3 cruisers to et a dread......... 3 dreads to get a station.
Then it comes back to well what is the point in having a ranking system at all if you can only get into your capital ships a fraction of the time that you play the game.
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And thats the kind of mentality that really holds back the game.
Why must Dreadnaughts be the only thing that accomplish what you want to do? Moreover, why must anything be based on when you're alone when you're playing an MMO?
Certainly we can't assume forever that Darkspace will never have enough players - thats a bad way to design an MMO, thats like saying its always going to suck too much to hold people. Its a self perpetuating problem.
Why do scouts have to be useless? Or supplies, or frigates or anything? Why must we always have something that is the best?
Because honestly, not everyone shares the opinion that big must equal best. Why must I be forced to play a bigger ship if I want to accomplish anything? Doesn't that seem unfair to others? The only solution is equality for everyone. Something that seems to be impossible in everyones heads because no one wants to give up their toys.
By putting emphasis on rank in this version we have basically done away with any importance in skill or ingenuity. Almost no one is willing to fly a smaller ship because they just suck in comparison to the big ships. If you can get one the only way you have an even match is if you get one yourself. In the end there is no "best" because everyone has the best. There is no variety, there are no surprises.
Of course you can say fly a smaller ship if you want to, but few willingly do for a good reason. Dreadnaughts are better in every way if you can get one. And everyone knows it.
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