| Author |
Small Ships and Big Ships |
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
|  Posted: 2005-08-20 20:43
[/quote]
Both of you SHUSH
Admin/Mod wins from lock topic...
[/quote]
Then all I can say for them is this :
There is an old saying from another forum which I would like to pass on here, especially to Sarah. 
"Forum argueing is like the Special Olympics - even if you win, your still retarded."
-Ent
_________________
|
RedDoggy(1)
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: August 14, 2004
Posts: 118
From: Oregon
| Posted: 2005-08-21 00:39
Make supply ships able to give power like repair to other ships.
There are some issues with this like pres gain from it.
But that would help the power problem for all factions.
_________________
|
Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-08-21 01:02
u should qoute the person who said it ent, you arent giving them their dues =P
so, i win =P lol
PS: if u care to read the battle dread ship description, it uses the word "mainstay" in there. youll find no such word in the EAD description. perhaps instead of screaming for changes to make the game like it was, you should try going with the flow?
[ This Message was edited by: N'Kra The Wolf {C?} on 2005-08-21 01:05 ]
_________________
Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-21 05:13
Point is, for every situation you can use the EAD...
The BD is better...
_________________
|
c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-08-21 05:36
Getting back OT, I disagree.
Yeah sure a dreadnought should be say twice/four times as strong and as powerful as a cruiser. But that is far too simplistic a model by far.
A lone cruiser should easily be able to take down a dreadnought, if the cruiser was flown well and the dreadnought was flown by a drunk.
Comments like 'Dreads=owns all' and such are far too simplistic. Ships have strengths and weaknesses that can be exploited by any pilot in any ship. That is the essence of being a skillful pilot.
Maybe the problem is that darkspace doesn't have varied enough weapon types, meaning that the weaknesses of some ships are too large. For instance, if you were to equip dreads with a flak type weapon, similar to AA batteries of WWII, effective to say 1kgu, how then would that effect the Small ship vs Dreadnought balance?
Well, I'll tell you, it'll make main weakness of the dreadnought (it's inability to target fast moving, far away craft) shrink considerably, without removing it completely.
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-21 06:02
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-21 05:36, c0ldfury wrote:
A lone cruiser should easily be able to take down a dreadnought, if the cruiser was flown well and the dreadnought was flown by a drunk.
|
|
No...
A dread should be able to hold out against anything below its class. It shouldnt even need to worry about destroyers unless they come in packs of 4. A lone cruiser shouldnt be able to touch a dread, in the real word, you wouldnt waltz a freaking humvee up to a tank would you and expect to take it out?
The dread has to be worth its rank and the time spent to get it, if a lone cruiser can take on a dread, then every experienced pilot is going ot be pretty pissed that all the time spent getting the dread, has gone to waste. All because he can do better in a cruiser...
_________________
|
c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-08-21 06:19
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-21 06:02, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
No...
A dread should be able to hold out against anything below its class. It shouldnt even need to worry about destroyers unless they come in packs of 4. A lone cruiser shouldnt be able to touch a dread, in the real word, you wouldnt waltz a freaking humvee up to a tank would you and expect to take it out?
|
|
If that Humvee was armed with a surface to surface anti-tank rocket, YES! The tank would not stand a chance against a surprise attack from a fast moving vehicle. For that matter it wouldn't stand a chance against a dug-in infantary man with an RPG, or a single mine! Tanks are very vulnerable.
In the same way dreadnoughts of WWII era were vulnerable to torpedo armed aircraft attack.
Nowadays of course, ships have sophicated anti rocket protection. But that still relies on having a large battle group surronding the big ships. A lone aircraft carrier or dreadnought is dead in the water. A few water skimming missiles travelling at mach 3 would easily overrun even the most sophicated anti-missiles systems.
Every ship has a weakness that can lead to it's death. The trick is protecting your weaknesses with either supporting ships or good piloting.
[ This Message was edited by: c0ldfury on 2005-08-21 06:23 ]
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-21 06:39
Well, dreads are equiped with every weapon under the sun. So wouldnt they have one too, at a higher level, with longer range?
I think the dread wins...
Dread also has more armour
More power..
Infact the only thing it doesnt have is speed and manouverability. But a dread doesnt give two monkies about those because it can sit there and take the damage...
Jesus your not getting this, if cruisers could take on a dread, then every vet in the entire game is going to be flying one, wondering. "Why the hell am I flying this, I thought I spent all this time gaining prestige to get BETTER ships, not a crappy dread...."
A dread should not be as vunrable as a scout, otherwise why the hell do we give noobs scouts, and not dreads...
Use logic here, this IS a game, bigger SHOULD be better, otherwise, what the hell am I paying for when I can sit in a scout thats just as vunrable as a dread, and hell, I dont have to waste a few months getting a dread, so I might aswell stay unsubbed!
The point in a dread, believe it or not, is to be the better ship, it has VERY little weakness, thats the perk of getting the high rank to being able to fly the ship. Screw this game if I pick a dread, and a cruiser and destroyer can waltz all over me.
A dreads weakness is its slow speed and manouberability, it cant catch up to the smaller ships, THATS its weakness. Its weakness is it isnt really design to deal with smaller ships. That should be its only weakness. A dread is designed to kill (except bomber/command), it shouldnt be waltzed over by anyone.
Bigger should be better. Otherwise, theres no point in paying, and no point in playing.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-08-21 06:44 ]
_________________
|
c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-08-21 06:54
Quote:
|
Jesus your not getting this, if cruisers could take on a dread, then every vet in the entire game is going to be flying one, wondering. "Why the hell am I flying this, I thought I spent all this time gaining prestige to get BETTER ships, not a crappy dread...."
|
|
But you can do things with a dread you can't possible do with a cruiser. Could you in a cruiser, for instance, jump into the middle of a battle, flux a cruiser with low armor, then CL a destroyer that gets too close, then spam another dread with torps all the time travelling at constant speed in a strait line, dealing massive damage with every hit, then jump out with only moderate damage? You've just turned the battle around single-handly, you've reduced the staying power of the entire enemy fleet.
Now of course, if you want to be able to jump directly behind another dreadnought and spam it with alphas until it's dead, while at the same time that pesky destroyer and cruiser spam you with torpedos but don't stand a chance of killing you in time, then fine. But that is not a game I want to play.
[ This Message was edited by: c0ldfury on 2005-08-21 06:58 ]
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-21 06:57
Perhaps when you spend all that time working towards using a dread/assault dread, you'll understand.
_________________
|
c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-08-21 07:05
Done it mate. When I got my first EAD back in 1.480, I got demoted strait away:) With a little time I learnt to pick my fights a bit more carefully. I never, EVER, expected I would be invincible to all but a sizable enemy fleet.
I was happy that, after a few weeks I was able to kill a station, single-handed in my EAD. (*Winks at Grimith if he's still about). But that didn't seem unbalanced at all to me or him at the time.
_________________
|
Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-08-21 07:38
Two points.
@Crimson - Many posts ago, you stated that the EAD should strike "bloody fear" into their opponents on the battlefield. The EAD had this notorious distinction in .482. But the problem was that no other assault class dreadnought had such distinction. Could it be because the EAD was clearly better than the other two assault class dreadnoughts in .482, and that you long to return to the old "glory days"? If your argument instead was that ALL assault class dreadnoughts should strike "bloody fear" into their opponents on the battlefield, then, I would view that to be a fair comment.
@Backslash - Being a veteran is not be determined by the type of ship you fly, but rather how you fly your ship. Dreadnoughts, like all other ships, are a tactical element in a battle. Dreadnoughts are the focal point of firepower. Destroyers are the focal point of maneuverability. BOTH elements are important in battle. Dreadnoughts should not be the "end all" of battle. They SHOULD, however, make enemies think twice before attacking.
The best case in point was exemplified by Nim, one of UGTO's most experienced pilots (and incidentally, a pilot whom I respect enormously). I hope you will agree with me when I say that Nim deserves the appellation of "veteran." (Because if he does not deserve it, then I do not know who does.) He could fly ANY ship at his disposal. Yet he chose an interdictor cruiser to defend Sol as it was being attacked, a few days ago, by a massive K'luth fleet comprising 2 stations, 8 dreadnoughts, 6 cruisers and supply ships. Now, as you may know, the interdictor cruiser is not what many people would call the pinnacle of UGTO firepower.
If I had to pick the one reason why UGTO, outnumbered and outgunned, successfully fended off this invasion sequence, it would have to be Nim. Not because he had the biggest guns, or the biggest, baddest ship. I think Nim is not so much concerned about image, or striking fear into his opponents, as he is about WINNING THE BATTLE. And this is why he is a veteran. He chose the ship with which he knew he could even the odds, and he chose that ship because he knew he could fly it much better than any of the other self-proclaimed veterans who were online at the moment, many of whom were sitting around in stations, hugging planets.
Nim played a direct role in destroying at least half of the fleet, even though he didn't once shoot a single torpedo. And the K'luth fleet was not destroyed by Battle Dreads or by EADs, but rather by destroyers and cruisers piloted by relatively newer players of UGTO.
Now, when Nim appears on the battlefield, he strikes "bloody fear" into his enemies, not because he is piloting an EAD, or an interdictor cruiser, but because he is Nim. (And yes, recently, K'luth pilots are not very eager to have a confrontation with Nim.)
Many people have forgotten that it is often the pilot who makes the ship, and not the ship which makes the pilot. Put a novice in the largest, most heavily armed ship in the galaxy, and he could lose it. Stick a veteran in a flying trash can, and he can still turn the tide of battle.
Such is the way of all games. The largest differentiating factor is never how much time you have spent playing the game. It has always been human skill. A hard reality to accept, but a real one nonetheless.
_________________
The Praetorian Wolves.
We are many. We are one.
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-08-21 08:20
Your not getting what im saying. Im not saying that your ship makes you a veteran, that has nothing to do with it.
But people will just look at the dreads, and see them as not worth piloting because cruisers are better for experienced players. That shouldnt be the case, you should be rewarded for your time spent ingame and your skill. Whats the point in getting dreads if cruisers can kill them easily...
I can quiet possibly fly the EAD better than a lot of people here, doesnt mean my skills are limited to dreads/the EAD. I can quiet happily fly a cruiser or dessy, but I want to feel like i've been rewarded for my time ingame. I dont feel like spending 100% of my time in a cruiser, because I can own dreads and anything else easily with one.
Your just putting it into two groups, WWII and the game. You cant split it that easily. You HAVE to feel rewarded in a game for doing well. For instance, in FPS's you get more money, you buy better weapons. Not many people will keep their pistol for every round. Its VERY important in a game for business and for fun, that you feel rewarded. I cant stress that enough.
Thats what im getting at...not about vet's.
_________________
|
Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-08-21 08:24
Can someone listos this for me? lol...
_________________
Darkspace: Twilight
|
Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-08-21 08:39
@Backslash - Even in MMORPGs, there is a limit to what you can obtain. Even in WOW, once you get your purple set, granted, there are other things to do, but you cannot get better equipment forever, otherwise you would get god-like characters. So most players start spending time honing their playing skills.
_________________
The Praetorian Wolves.
We are many. We are one.
|
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
