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DarkSpace 1.6 |
Noble
Admiral
Joined: July 30, 2008
Posts: 6
From: The Kettle
|  Posted: 2011-01-21 05:49
Quote:
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On 2011-01-21 05:13, chlorophyll wrote:
shall planet still FF?
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no
[ This Message was edited by: *Fish* on 2011-01-21 05:50 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-01-21 08:17
* Assuming A just gain control of Z planet from B without bombing any infantry. So Z still has 32 B infantry on it. Do B infantry on Z helps substracting control value of Z which belongs to A now?
- yep.
* What is the speed of infantry regeneration to control point compare to ship?
- A full planet of inf counts for about three ships.
* Only gain when successfully capture or during the progress?
- When the planet changes ownership, points are awarded for the capture to the winning team.
* Does planet see ANYTHING visible within influence range although it has negative signature?
- Only those which are "detected," which means it is dependent upon signature, not visibility.
* Assuming Z has 5 off II on it and there are 5 red ships are approaching. Does each ship receive total 5 off II damage or 1/5 of the total damage?
- Neither - its closer to 2 off II bases worth of damage, each. I'm not going to reveal the exact formula though.
* Does it mean green infantry stronger than red infantry since the green deals the same damage but receive less?
- In effect, yes.
* "Engineers hold more + value, whereas bombers hold more - value (due to bombs)." Sounds like a green bomber subsctracts the control value while the red engineer adds to it. I'm a bit confused, shall you clarify?
- No, green ships always add to control and red ships always subtract. But their relative helpfulness varies based on whether they're a bomber, an engineer, a scout, or something else.
* I wonder if planet only attacks ships in influence range. Compare A planet filled with ICC off II and B planet filled with KLuth off II. Clearly capturing B is easier when the interdictor is there.
- All planets now have the same range of detection and defense, so there's no difference in when an ICC and a Kluth planet begins attacking you.
* If the planet attack all ships within influence range regardless the visual, then how to dodge? Small ships will have no chance to survive.
- Since this is more roll-based damage now, ships have an inherent assumed dodging ability and thus damage percentage. Scouts, to make up fake numbers, only take half the damage from a defense base because they are "dodging" whereas stations take full damage because they'd never be able to anyway, for example.
* How about AI transport and its auto capturing code now?
- We'll have to edit that.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-01-21 08:24
* Haven't try beta, just want to know with new visual effect, shall planet still FF?
- It might visually occur, but it won't cause any actual damage.
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Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2011-01-21 10:25
things I notice when playing beta:
- The 'blockade corvette' needs to be rename as it won't cause blockades no more.
- The planetary defence fire that is 'just for show' needs to be toned down. Slowed down atleast. There is a K'luth offence base on planet El that fires like a machine gun on steroids.
- I'm guessing you intended to change the view of the planet from afar so it only shows one statline at a time? At the moment it cycles between stat lies. I prefered the old way of showing it all at once, why was it changed?
- With planets getting changed, it might be worth considering removing the "cost" of the planet in credits. It has absolutely no value or point in this current edition of the game.
- Planet defences seem alright at first glance, I haven't found a working anti ship planet to test the dreadnaught and cruiser armour against. Considering in this edition to come dreadnaughts will have less power against clusters as a whole, you need teamwork it seems to take a planet.
A point defence planet is well and truely useless at killing ships, but that would be the point. It still hurts, just not alot.
- The talk of the ECM and cloak meaning the ships do not take damage. I'm not fond of this, but it does make sense in a way. While the planet itself doesn't shoot you it is assumed the mass of batteries that are represented by this radius of pain would only target things they see. That being said, does that mean that cloaks and ECM ships can attempt to capture a planet? I mean cloaks I would assume no, but ECM means that the ship is still there just with a negative signature. So a fleet with negative signature can capture an entire cluster without much trouble?
- Very much liking the offensive planet attacks in strength. One question I have however is all the races can heal each other using depos/supplies/whatever but the ICC have a natural recharge rate attached to their energy reserves and their armour amount is quite poor. With the inability to give each other shields it could mean that armour races fare better at planet offensives than shield simply because you can 'chain repair' each other whereas ICC cannot. (Even though they have 'defensive mode' which takes up ALOT of power and cannot be used for a lengthy period of time)
(Not having a go at ICC, just voicing things that spring to mind)
- Thumbs up on the way infantry stay on the planet. It means that while you don't infantry to capture the planet it really really helps to drop them anyway. Even if you capture a planet the hostile infantry stays there, so if you move off the enemy capture it quicker as a punishment for not consolodating your position.
- The mining laser beam doesn't seem to want to appear for me when activated.
- The amount of ships that can attempt to help capture a planet is everything except corvette, atleast that I read. What about platforms? If I build a shed load of platforms while in orbit do they help or prevent?
- I would like to see the defence area of planet based attacks increased to that of the interdictor fields. It seems that once a transport is within 600gu there is little less of a biblical GM incident that will stop it dropping. I would like to see the defence kick in a bit sooner, or it would be quite easy to bomb and continuously drop infantry. When in beta server a transport will appear every 2 minutes (about) and seem completely unstoppable in dropping. Granted after the planetary PD thing does it job upon impact there are less of them (or whatever) but the hostile transports drop more infantry than any decent built planet can sustain. If you have 3 barracks thats 3 heavy infantry every 3 1/2 minutes or so? Who cares if the npcs drop 4-5 heavy infantry every 2 minutes?
- MD bombing could be an issue. Considering there is no more real PD you can easily just flatten most of the planet and still waltz in without a care in the world.
- Neutrons no longer pass through planetary shields when bombing. A planet has 300% or high shields with only 2 shield generators. Granted infantry can pass through it (I'd hope) and you don't need to bomb to capture but this means that ICC have a very unhealthy advantage to defending their planets. You cannot bomb them.
- With 4x Anti ship bases on a planet the planet doesn't seem to do all that much damage to hostile ships. When it does damage it seems almost incapable of finishing off the targets. Then ofcourse there is the issue that if they just sit 601gu away then the planet doesn't care.
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I'm wondering if it would be a good change to the game to restrict how many infantry a transport can carry to a good 6-7. Realistically while infantry do not control the planet as a whole it is still quite vital to the planet control ratio. If AI transports can just continuously drop infantry, then human controlled transports will really punish that error as they can do it faster with more.
All in all it isn't a bad change, I kinda of like it. Although I mega raged when after capturing a planet in beta I had to sit there building while being completely ravaged by AI destroyers/cruisers while at the same time hostile transports dropping. After 30 minutes of fighting over the sodding planet I built 5-6 anti ship bases and then lost the ground war. It is literally impossible to keep up with the amount of infantry AI transports drop on the planet. The planet is UGTO but the ground is almost pure inf from ICC because the second the planet builds infantry they get mobbed by the already existing 15 ICC infantry. (who quickly turn Elite btw)
[ This Message was edited by: Snafu (Okkam) on 2011-01-21 17:21 ]
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-01-21 23:24
Quote:
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On 2011-01-21 10:25, Snafu (Okkam) wrote:
things I notice when playing beta:
- Very much liking the offensive planet attacks in strength. One question I have however is all the races can heal each other using depos/supplies/whatever but the ICC have a natural recharge rate attached to their energy reserves and their armour amount is quite poor. With the inability to give each other shields it could mean that armour races fare better at planet offensives than shield simply because you can 'chain repair' each other whereas ICC cannot. (Even though they have 'defensive mode' which takes up ALOT of power and cannot be used for a lengthy period of time)
(Not having a go at ICC, just voicing things that spring to mind)
All in all it isn't a bad change, I kinda of like it. Although I mega raged when after capturing a planet in beta I had to sit there building while being completely ravaged by AI destroyers/cruisers while at the same time hostile transports dropping. After 30 minutes of fighting over the sodding planet I built 5-6 anti ship bases and then lost the ground war. It is literally impossible to keep up with the amount of infantry AI transports drop on the planet. The planet is UGTO but the ground is almost pure inf from ICC because the second the planet builds infantry they get mobbed by the already existing 15 ICC infantry. (who quickly turn Elite btw)
[ This Message was edited by: Reznor on 2011-01-21 23:25 ]
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ICC may have a repair disadvantage, but that assumes that your force has ships capable of repair. Technically, an ICC force can attack better WITHOUT having repair support, as they can bring shields back online just as fast with or without repair. Even so, hasn't this been the way it's always been? Ugto spam repair drones, K'luth spam AHR/repair drones (achieving godly repair speeds), and ICC have to change thier batteries every 5 minutes (the real reason we qq so much  ) .
Also, the new system isn't nearly as compatible before with solo capping. It's much harder than it was. Though I agree entirely that damage needs a massive boost. When I played as an escort dessie, flying through clusters taking damage from everything, it barely nicked my shields.
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Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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Balancept
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 09, 2010
Posts: 31
From: Somewhere
| Posted: 2011-01-21 23:33
I have probably been in beta more recently then, because when I was recapping a planet in a Sector Command, there was enough defensive fire to kill one level of shields, and start eating through the second layer. The damage was significant, and I had to go out of the def. bases range until I could knock out enough power to cause the defense bases to shut down. This proves that they have increased the power of the def bases from what you are stating.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-01-22 00:05
The planet is UGTO but the ground is almost pure inf from ICC because the second the planet builds infantry they get mobbed by the already existing 15 ICC infantry. (who quickly turn Elite btw)
it is vitaly imperitive that you deal with enemy troups befor you take the planet. I like this. While it is possible for me and my four dread allies to take a planet in about 15 minutes with no bomber or engineer. It quickly reverts because i did not deal with the enemy infantry. I would not have it any other way.
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-01-22 01:50
Odd thing I found when trying to find an offense base 2 planet to test damage: Bases still fire even if they're inactive or have worker/tech/power shortages. Apparently the deactivated bases do no damage (or else and assault frigate can tank 6 off 2 bases without rotating shields) , but continue the fire animation.
I do like that bases can fire through the planet. In fact, it looks like the shots are coming from random places on the surface because it's not readily apparent it's coming from a base on the other side of the planet.
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Indictor: 1. To accuse of wrongdoing
Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2011-01-22 05:03
Quote:
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it is vitaly imperitive that you deal with enemy troups befor you take the planet. I like this. While it is possible for me and my four dread allies to take a planet in about 15 minutes with no bomber or engineer. It quickly reverts because i did not deal with the enemy infantry. I would not have it any other way.
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You're missing the point. I captured the planet after bombing all the infantry off it using my CDread and then decided to build. First thing I did was build 5 barracks but the sheer amount of AI transport drops is huge. As a CD you cannot stop them, especially if you have to deal with hostile AI destroyers and cruisers. It is a full on operation to keep an existing planet at all times it seems. Instead of what it should be, which is to defend it while it gets built.
Also, on the note that someone used a SCB to take a cluster. Did you check to see if those defence bases were indeed anti ship? To be frank even if the planet cluster managed to take down one of your shields... it doesn't stop you, it just hinders you a bit. When I was taking the aforementioned planet, I built anti ship bases to make the AI ships bugger off and it didn't work. They just shrugged off the damage instead of bloody well dying. The destroyers (2-3 of them) didn't even get to hull... I had 5-6 anti ship bases by the end of it, a planet will have no more than an average of 8 bases. What you need to actually repell small ship attacks/transports is too high.
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furtim
Admiral
Joined: June 06, 2005
Posts: 27
| Posted: 2011-01-22 21:36
Bring your own inf rather than relying on barracks to build new ones. Or get a transport buddy to do it for you. It sounds like you're trying to solo-cap, which the new system is more or less specifically designed to discourage anyway.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-01-23 07:06
BackSlash mentioned about the reprequisite resource on a planet for its capability of producing ships, something like rare elements. Does it take a role in 1.6?
Quote:
| On 2011-01-21 08:17, Shigernafy wrote:
* Assuming Z has 5 off II on it and there are 5 red ships are approaching. Does each ship receive total 5 off II damage or 1/5 of the total damage?
- Neither - its closer to 2 off II bases worth of damage, each. I'm not going to reveal the exact formula though.
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So def base location is no longer important. All def bases work regardless where the enemy is.
I guess range of bombs shall be limited about maximum 500gu to the target. But with bomber fighter there and planet's PD is gone, looks like players may prefer Colony, MD or Carrier to Bomber Dread as it's safer way to bomb a planet. So I think a ship should only have one class of fighter and fighter range decreases below 2000gu. Less spamming from both planet and player, less CPU usage, yikes!
Besides, marvelous work of PaleStar team. We love you!!!
P/S: although I have to say that using command station with 8 AWC, spamming bomber fighters and no infs was killed when I bomb Canthos is heart-broken.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2011-01-23 10:09 ]
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Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2011-01-23 11:34
Quote:
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On 2011-01-22 21:36, furtim (RC) wrote:
Bring your own inf rather than relying on barracks to build new ones. Or get a transport buddy to do it for you. It sounds like you're trying to solo-cap, which the new system is more or less specifically designed to discourage anyway.
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Granted I was trying to solo capture a planet and it wasn't easy, which I am happy about, but the simple fact that I did manage to get the planet infantry to about 20 heavy infantry and still nothing could be done to physically stop the transports dropping infantry. Not all the infantry landed and I did my best to shoot down the transports or infantry, but the point is that without someone to guard the planet at all times it seems there is absolutely nothing stopping a transport from just waltzing in and dropping a full load of infantry then buggering off before they seem to be in trouble.
Even with a interdictor, 5-6 anti ship bases (and before some smartass points out that anti ship bases probably aren't the best to stop inf drops, consider that this would mean that anti ship planets are 100% useless at any kind of defensive action) the transports would arrive at 800gu or something, then get to 600gu before they get hit by the ineffective defences before dropping their infantry and either a.) finally dying or b.) managing to get out to repeat the process. If an AI transport can cause me to rage by simply following a simple script then I hate to think what human transports can do.
If you take into account that only one or two transports will drop infantry now and again that it still up to 20 heavy infantry, which if we think back to what I said earlier, a planet will have 2-3 barracks unless it is a barracks planet in itself. This means that it will produce 3 heavy infantry every 4 minutes or whatever.. So 32 inf defenders, 12-20 hostile inf drop.. They duke it out to end up with about 22 defenders left or something. It takes about 25 minutes for the planet to get the infantry back up to 32 by which time I bet you anything more than 2 AI transports will repeat the process, which in turn will further push back the production of infantry to max.
[ This Message was edited by: Snafu (Okkam) on 2011-01-23 11:40 ]
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2011-01-23 16:55
dose planet def hurt all arcs or just ones faceing planet?
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-01-23 17:11
facing last time i was in
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Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2011-01-23 17:59
Just the arcs facing the planet yes.
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