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Schroedingers Gun
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 24, 2010
Posts: 99
From: favour6
|  Posted: 2010-07-08 11:02
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On 2010-07-08 06:54, Flash{Invaded Craiova} wrote:
with this changes Kluth will always win and i really dont like it. But im glad icc is out of sag coz they were the only ones who liked this thing with resources!
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enjoy ONLY fighting the kluth that are gate camping you, i have no doubt UGTO and ICC would do the same if they could,
i see 2 solutions transfer gates are
a) safe zones
b)made in to "battle gates" armed to the teeth somthing like the factions battle/line/wat ever the kluth version is, maybe even having the fire power of 3-4 stations, with the AI set to shoot supply then the biggest ships and work its way down in size, also being able to see cloaked ships,
that way no one will want to gate camp
[ This Message was edited by: Schroedingers Gun {SOE} on 2010-07-08 11:06 ]
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-07-08 11:05
Ok, just wanted to let everyone know that the devs are working on this issue..
The primary problem, is that we've had a bug in the game for a long long time which prevented the deduction of resources from a planet on spawn.. this bug has now been fixed, and we now all see the results.
Resource costs have been increased for ships after this bug was introduced, so it was never realized until recently what kind of impact this would have on gameplay.
So a couple of things are going to happen really soon...
1. Resource output of mines and resource capacity of planets will probably be increased ALOT.
2. Resource costs for spawning a existing ship from a planet will more than likely drop from 25% as well, I'm thinking it will go to to 5% to 15%.
So please stop freaking out, we have simply uncovered a balance issue with resources that we need a little bit of time to address. This all said, once we hit a better balance you still will NOT be able to spawn ships endlessly from planets, that is the PURPOSE of the resource cost. You will need to actually build infrastructure and mines to make sure you key planets have plenty of resources to spawn your ships.
-F
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2010-07-08 11:06 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-07-08 11:11
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On 2010-07-08 11:05, Faustus wrote:
Ok, just wanted to let everyone know that the devs are working on this issue..
The primary problem, is that we've had a bug in the game for a long long time which prevented the deduction of resources from a planet on spawn.. this bug has now been fixed, and we now all see the results.
Resource costs have been increased for ships after this bug was introduced, so it was never realized until recently what kind of impact this would have on gameplay.
So a couple of things are going to happen really soon...
1. Resource output of mines and resource capacity of planets will probably be increased ALOT.
2. Resource costs for spawning a existing ship from a planet will more than likely drop from 25% as well, I'm thinking it will go to to 5% to 15%.
So please stop freaking out, we have simply uncovered a balance issue with resources that we need a little bit of time to address. This all said, once we hit a better balance you still will NOT be able to spawn ships endlessly from planets, that is the PURPOSE of the resource cost. You will need to actually build infrastructure and mines to make sure you key planets have plenty of resources to spawn your ships.
-F
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2010-07-08 11:06 ]
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Not everyone didn't realize the kind of impact it would have on gameplay  Some of us have been warning against simply fixing that bug without also changing other aspects for months. It's because we remember the last time ships used resources, and how it was no big deal in the MV because planets had millions of resources at a time usually.
In scenario it was always a big deal, but maps had no time limit so it was OK if it took a long time for everyone to get their ships.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2010-07-08 11:38
We all knew it would have an impact. The surprise was how big a whine fest it has triggered.
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2010-07-08 11:38
i feel the best way to remedy this problem is to increase planet resource caps, increase mining rates, make a cheap defense base that repells inf so mining planets aren't so easly capped,
make it so planet types are enforced i.e.
sy planet - planet that spawns ships has the greatest resource cap and is the best defended,
mining planet - enough said but if this is the case then either mining bases need anti ship and invasion weapons at tech 2 and 3,
research planet - planet that shares its research system wide so more spaces can be divirted to defense.
i also suggest making planet defense platforms that feed off of a planets resource stock so that they don't die off as time passes, reduce kluth splash damage so plats don't blob when they die. thanks
i don't mind the requiring resources to spawn at planets but that shoulda been phased into to the game with the other stuff mining base/beam rate increases, allowing 50k resources to be held in a extractor each stack goes to 5k instead of 1k anything you coulda atleast did a pre-launch warning.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2010-07-08 11:41
We have a SY planet - its called a Terran.
Platforms are expressely designed to require human management; they're not made to be a build-and-forget type structure. Part of their balance is the fact that they will decay over time without someone looking after them at least once a day. That won't change.
Mining and resource production rate changess are already in the works. Mining beams may get a bump too. Not sure how the 1k limit is set, but that could be an option to change too.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-08 11:54
Yes. 10 to 15% of ship cost to spawn from SY sounds reasonable. 25% was a tad harsh.
Planetary structure limits could perhaps be upped to 40 to accomodate more mines or defs.
As an alternative to the above, but still reducing dread station spamming, we could restructure the cost into tiers:
- stations @ 20%
- dreads @ 15%
- cruisers @ 7%
- destroyers and below at 3%
This will hopefully help to make stations more rare. When they're rare, they become more strategic in value.
I guess we should continue to allow transfer gate spawning, though it somehow just doesn't add up logically or semantically. Otherwise players might start to vanish for real. But not before their QQ death throes.
I propose no safe zone for transfer gate spawning. A free spawn should come with its risks. And even if you have to put a safe zone up (after incessant whining), then make it a real small one like 200gus in radius.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-07-08 12:07 ]
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-07-08 12:02
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On 2010-07-08 11:41, Shigernafy wrote:
We have a SY planet - its called a Terran.
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Awesome wheres ICC's? Oh wait we don't have one, gotta go all the way back to CD and Exertha to find the nearest one.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-07-08 12:03
Quote:
| On 2010-07-08 11:05, Faustus wrote:
So a couple of things are going to happen really soon...
1. Resource output of mines and resource capacity of planets will probably be increased ALOT.
2. Resource costs for spawning a existing ship from a planet will more than likely drop from 25% as well, I'm thinking it will go to to 5% to 15%.
This all said, once we hit a better balance you still will NOT be able to spawn ships endlessly from planets, that is the PURPOSE of the resource cost. You will need to actually build infrastructure and mines to make sure you key planets have plenty of resources to spawn your ships. |
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Is ship in 'spawning an existing ship" considered as "new ship that not in garrage" so that fit the "PURPOSE"? Cause 8 is NOT endlessly.
To make it clear, we should divide the circumstances:
- Launch the ship in the garrage. Cost maximum 5% res value of the ship counted for Parking and Repping fee as repping has taken effect while docking. So launch a station already has in garrage will cost less than 15k res. This is an acceptable and reasonable fee for players I think.
- Buy the ship available in menu but not yet in garrage. This time, it cost the planet all the resource required to get the ship. E.g.: someone who not yet has a station, buy one on a terran, the terran will drop from 450k res (assuming 450k = max res terran can hold) to 170k- res.
This is what I'm thinking. It's sensible that there are different prices between existing and brand-new ships. This feature to prevent spawning completely new cruiser to do the final blow instead of launching the 5% hull station to rep.
That's why I propose 4 buttons in choosing ship screen:
- Buy: get pristine ship to garrage.
- Launch: launch existent ship in garrage.
- Remove: liquidate destined ship in garrage.
- Cancel: not playing.
Therefore, the button "buy" enhs should change to "Shop". Come on, this is 21st century, everyone can go shopping but not all afford to buy.
How about Pres-For-Giving-Planets-Res? Since res has become the crucial part in the game, mining and collecting must be a great work! Just make it alike Transport pres: depends on amount of res sent to the planet, and depends on structures on it, players will get the adequate pres. Oh, mining badge might be a new reward. The one who has the highest mining pres shall be the hero of the game! =))
Shoud there have been enhs to effect mining beam please? If Beam cooler or Beam multiplexer get effect on mining beams, people will pay credits to buy 8 Advanced for modding extractor I bet.
Btw, if it cost res to buy fresh ship, will any % res REFUND when remove the ship? He he, even a useless computer can be sold for scrap-iron dealer  1% refund would be grateful 
[ This Message was edited by: Diep Luc on 2010-07-08 12:30 ]
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Undead Patriot
Vice Admiral
Joined: October 31, 2007
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2010-07-08 12:15
everyone knows whats gonna end up happening if they keep this. people are gonna want to spawn the ships that they want, and if they cant, they just wont play darkspace. I mined a planet for 35 minutes yesterday just for some other player to spawn a station from it. the new system is unfair for people. instead of relying on resources for a spawn timer. there should just be a timer in the game stating that you just spawned a ship so you cant spawn another one for a certain amount of time.
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2010-07-08 12:25
when you guys fix this problem please creat like 5 special mining slots for a planet that can olny hold mining structures so we the player can build mining planets with good defenses and not waste the limited spaces on a planet, or better yet allow us to build the entire planet all the spaces so planets can be death traps, or worst.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-07-08 12:56
Quote:
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On 2010-07-08 11:05, Faustus wrote:
1. Resource output of mines and resource capacity of planets will probably be increased ALOT.
2. Resource costs for spawning a existing ship from a planet will more than likely drop from 25% as well, I'm thinking it will go to to 5% to 15%.
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That's all most of us are asking for, that should be more than sufficient.
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On 2010-07-08 11:54, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
I propose no safe zone for transfer gate spawning. A free spawn should come with its risks. And even if you have to put a safe zone up (after incessant whining), then make it a real small one like 200gus in radius. |
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You spawn at over 200 GU from a gate, and enter a gate at 30 GU. Most ships would barely fit inside a 200 GU distance. There's already a working safe zone setup in scenario, home systems, and Ursa Minor for the faction homegates. Easiest thing to do would just copy that for MV transfer gates.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-07-08 15:54
Oh yeah? You dont have any idea how much this was abused in the earlier version of mv... It is like tracking Steve in his station.. Oh no wait.. he went to the RR gate...Face/palm.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-07-08 16:18
Don't make it so easy to get and keep resources that people can spawn ships endlessly. I would say you should keep Stations at 25% cost and reduce it based on class.
Honetly, the biggest whiners are the people who do want to endlessly spawn their stations and dreadnaughts, so you have to keep it a little harsh, otherwise you're giving back what you just took away: their ability to endlessly spawn station and dreadnaught fleets. You really don't want to defeat the whole purpose of a resource cost by caving in too much.
Also, something to note: The resource cost makes perfect sense in launching existing ships. This is because you can launch your docked ship anywhere no matter where you originally docked it. Not only is this that something in reality would be hard to pull off, I imagine it would take alot effort to move your huge ship from one planet to another across the universe.
-Ent
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Silent Threat { Vier }
Marshal
Anarchy's End
Joined: August 03, 2004
Posts: 278
From: Waiting...watching...
| Posted: 2010-07-08 18:12
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On 2010-07-07 12:49, Leopard wrote:
I think it would have been better to massively increase the amount of res loss Dreadnoughts and Stations give. This way, flying bigger ships means constantly playing a high risk, high reward game.
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Agreed. I think this would be a much better solution. Just find the right level of pres lose though. Don't make that too extreme...
[ This Message was edited by: Silent Threat { Vier } on 2010-07-08 18:14 ]
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