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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Tactics & New Players » » ICC whats become of it.......?
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 Author ICC whats become of it.......?
Dilandu
2nd Rear Admiral

Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 14
Posted: 2009-10-17 01:51   
Quote:

On 2009-10-16 23:48, Bardiche wrote:
Flattered, Dilandu, but the issue here isn't who has or has not been online, nor should it be.


Agreed, it should be what ICC present equipment status, and i feel better when i see peep use them before they talk of their effectiveness or ineffectiveness.

Crim, ur right, i have not seen you fly icc since this post went up does not mean u havent.

So i'll ask u directly: Have u recently (1 month) used the ICC ship that u claim expertise on? IF SO:
1.) What is the Max range weapon sysm on a ICC line station? (including fighters)

2.) what is the Signature of a MD with 3 ECM, Aux gen off, Shield off, sitting in deep space, immediatly after fireing off a FULL solvo.

3.) When a Assult Cruiser with all PFE flys at 15gu, how many Alpha strikes can it fire before complete energy depletion?(Count HCL shots) How long does it take to charge it's JD?

4.) What is the Fore arc complement of weapons for the Heavy Cruiser?

Everyone feel free to answer these. ^_^

[ This Message was edited by: Dilandu on 2009-10-17 01:57 ]
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights


Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
Posted: 2009-10-17 02:13   
i can answer the 4th.


4 lasers, 2 torpedoes, 2 missile slots, 3 cannons.
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captain of the ICC Assault Cruiser C.S.S. Sledgehammer

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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
Posted: 2009-10-17 03:35   
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 02:13, Leonide wrote:
i can answer the 4th.


4 lasers, 2 torpedoes, 2 missile slots, 3 cannons.




It's all we ever use now.
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
Posted: 2009-10-17 05:14   
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 01:51, Dilandu wrote:
So i'll ask u directly: Have u recently (1 month) used the ICC ship that u claim expertise on? IF SO:
1.) What is the Max range weapon sysm on a ICC line station? (including fighters) Fighters can go past 14k, IT Missles go 3125gu out, ICs come out to 1912gu. So, I was outdated on one point of the Line Station, my bad. Either way, you can sit 2k out from a fight and still be effective. But, as I said, I use it in two different ways. Sitting away from the fight and lobbing things, or jumping in with a full fleet.

2.) what is the Signature of a MD with 3 ECM, Aux gen off, Shield off, sitting in deep space, immediatly after fireing off a FULL solvo.Comes out to 6.2 on the signature, but again, you seem to forget to read certain parts of what I write. You need a fleet and teamwork, just one ECM scout would be enough to keep your signature in the negatives here.

3.) When a Assult Cruiser with all PFE flys at 15gu, how many Alpha strikes can it fire before complete energy depletion?(Count HCL shots) How long does it take to charge it's JD?Was able to get off seven full alphas before my power ran out, and that took around a minute and a half. The Jump Drive charged in 55 seconds, give or take two seconds. But, again, as I've said, you're a retard if you just fire alpahs in an AC. Number the CLs, HCLs, and Torps different numbers and use them like that after the first two alphas.

4.) What is the Fore arc complement of weapons for the Heavy Cruiser?
Three railguns, two torps, four CLs, and three missles. But if you'd notice the layout of the HC, the majority of it's weapons are focused on the side arcs. The fore ones are there for if you have to follow a ship, or you're turning away from it.



And did I piss in your cereal or something? I understand that you may not agree with me, or thinking that since I'm not in the MV everyday all day I know nothing about a faction I've played for almost seven years now. I've tested these ships, and they're still ment to be used for what they where ment to be used for since the start.

[ This Message was edited by: Captain Crim on 2009-10-17 05:16 ]
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors

Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
Posted: 2009-10-17 05:59   
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 05:14, Captain Crim wrote:
...some stuff...



I paraphrased.

So it is silly to do a Q&A like this but I think it's fair to say the intent was to point out shortcomings in your recent/timely ingame actual experience. In fairness, you did make some significant factual errors in your earlier authoritative posts.

I remember one being simply the count of the number of forward targetting railguns on a Heavy Cruiser(which is correctly designated a CA, not HC).

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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
Posted: 2009-10-17 07:09   
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 05:59, Fornax wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 05:14, Captain Crim wrote:
...some stuff...



I paraphrased.

So it is silly to do a Q&A like this but I think it's fair to say the intent was to point out shortcomings in your recent/timely ingame actual experience. In fairness, you did make some significant factual errors in your earlier authoritative posts.

I remember one being simply the count of the number of forward targetting railguns on a Heavy Cruiser(which is correctly designated a CA, not HC).



Er, I was correct on the number of forward targetting railguns, I was off by one on the number it can fire on it's side arcs. And I've always used HC shorten the Heavy Cruiser's name, while in correct naval terms it would be CA.

Don't worry, I'll be working on an ICC ship guide with checked statistics and facts, so you guys can stop crawling up my ass when I'm alittle off on something.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: 2009-10-17 18:03   
Y'know, I seem to recall the Heavy Cruiser having five forward-firing Railguns back before they introduced the new Heavy guns across the board. I'd wager that two of those three forward guns are Heavy, which is the equivalent of five guns.



Also, I had something of an epiphany today.

I think the problem with ICC comes down to them not being configured quite right for their optimum playstyle. K'luth have a pretty good setup between their Cloak and their AHR. UGTO, I'm not so sure, but they're pretty sturdy either way. For the ICC... I'll walk you through my logic here.

So the ICC have shields, which are superior to armor but not excessively so. The shields use up lots of energy, so to compensate they use Railguns for their primary weapon, since they don't need much energy to fire. Railguns do less damage than their UGTO and K'luth equivalent at close range, so it is advantageous to the ICC ship to engage from as far away as possible. However, the ICC do not have any improved ability to hold the range open.

In fact, of the three factions they're the worst at keeping their distance from the enemy. The shields on just about every ship create energy management nightmares when flying at high speeds, so ICC are forced to stay slow. Slower than their counterparts, who will inevitably catch up to them. The shields also hamper the ICC Interdictor Cruiser, because they have to split their energy between the Jump Disruptor and their shields.

UGTO ships, on the other hand, can fly faster without having energy management problems. K'luth ships are naturally fast already, to say nothing of their ability to sneak up on the ICC while cloaked--and no, I don't think that pinging ECCM is enough to prevent this. It will allow you to get a few hits in, yes, but it won't be enough to kill them unless you have way more ships than they do already.



What I am now thinking of for ICC is possibly a slight buff to their shields, and to give them an improved capability to stay at range. Perhaps an Interdictor Cruiser with a greater-than-normal radius, and/or an upgraded Jump Drive with a shorter recharge--not to the point of the AMJ, mind you, maybe somewhere midway between it and the Tachyon Drive.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral

Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
Posted: 2009-10-17 18:28   
Recovery is anothe issue, although not so much with reactives; I personally like the idea of increased passive regen when a ship isn't under fire and below a certain level of energy drain, which scales with each hull class exponentially from dreads to deal with the fragile station problem at the same time.
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Founder and former Club chair of the Shigernafy Fan Club
Co-founder of the Doran Judication Comittee


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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors

Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
Posted: 2009-10-17 19:28   
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 18:03, Jim Starluck wrote:
...However, the ICC do not have any improved ability to hold the range open.

In fact, of the three factions they're the worst at keeping their distance from the enemy. The shields on just about every ship create energy management nightmares when flying at high speeds, so ICC are forced to stay slow. Slower than their counterparts, who will inevitably catch up to them. The shields also hamper the ICC Interdictor Cruiser, because they have to split their energy between the Jump Disruptor and their shields.

What I am now thinking of for ICC is possibly a slight buff to their shields, and to give them an improved capability to stay at range. Perhaps an Interdictor Cruiser with a greater-than-normal radius, and/or an upgraded Jump Drive with a shorter recharge--not to the point of the AMJ, mind you, maybe somewhere midway between it and the Tachyon Drive.




I think it's an interesting problem thesis.

My question is, might you be attempting to tweak 3 or 4 processes when one is sufficient. (power cost to maintain/regenerate shields).

Even before the last two major patches, ships like the ICC Heavy Supply couldn't hang in combat while the UGTO Heavy Supply could do so easily...and often do minor but noticeable damage. I kinda wonder about any changes that alter that theme. I guess you can say it's a significant handicap but it's one I'm used to and it's not really that big a problem. Unlike the newer ICC, I manage my power well.

So here's a question. What if what needs refactoring is actually the cost to move?

We're already using the mass of ship armor as part of maneuverability and I believe acceleration/deceleration. What about the base cost to move? Might ICC need less?
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: 2009-10-17 21:34   
I believe ICC ships do have lower mass than their UGTO counterparts, what with using shields instead of heavy armor. This should give them improved turn rates and acceleration. But it doesn't affect maximum speed, which is what affects how fast you can close on a target and how much energy you get at speed. The only things that affect that are your hull type (Dessie, Cruiser, Dread, etc.), and your Engines.

I suppose we could give ICC a unique engine type, but I'm hesitant to do so, because it would need to have both high speed and energy generation. All of the other current engine types balance various aspects, without being too strong in any one in particular. The ideal engine for the ICC would thus be way too strong.

Also, simply letting them fly faster would potentially make it impossible to catch them. Which we do not want; both other factions have to be able to get into close range so that they can hurt the ICC faster than the ICC can hurt them. We just need to enable the ICC to make that as difficult as possible without making it TOO difficult.
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JBud
Marshal

Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
Posted: 2009-10-17 21:44   

[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-10-17 22:21 ]
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: 2009-10-17 21:51   
That wouldn't help much if shield drain was still a problem. Shield drain is the biggest thing keeping ICC slow.
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JBud
Marshal

Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
Posted: 2009-10-17 21:57   

[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-10-17 22:21 ]
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Nightsabre
Marshal

Joined: February 21, 2005
Posts: 66
Posted: 2009-10-17 22:33   
Like Sensitivity said:

Recharge is something that affects every faction a lot in this game that would be nice to take care of if at all possible. Would it be possible to put like a counter that if you were not hit and did not shoot for 1 minuet or something equivalent (also no cloaking) you could get enhanced regeneration from repair?

Also would be nice to make repair help shields since every faction can repair to 100% but only ICC has to sit there and wait for who the heck knows how long. This could be done out of combat to but I would like to see it in combat since it really affects it a lot.
[ This Message was edited by: Nightsabre on 2009-10-17 23:10 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2009-10-18 03:22   
Quote:

On 2009-10-17 21:34, Jim Starluck wrote:

Also, simply letting them fly faster would potentially make it impossible to catch them. Which we do not want; both other factions have to be able to get into close range so that they can hurt the ICC faster than the ICC can hurt them. We just need to enable the ICC to make that as difficult as possible without making it TOO difficult.




But this is a basic paradox. If you give ICC any kind of basic advantage to maintain distance, then its the same as it is now as UGTO and Kluth have a basic advantage to close distance. Its too hard to counter.

Personally, considering that ICC weapons do so much less damage and thus take so much longer to kill their enemies, that this is a better alternative than what we have now.

Of course, you could always redesign ICC from the ground up and instead of trying to make them into UGTO 2.0 you could actually give them their very own unique playstyle.

Like you know, all shields, no armor. More speed, more acceleration.

Boost shields to compensate for no armor.

Let ICC actually use that speed and acceleration by not totally killing their energy, and keep the weapons as they are.

But we all have wishes.




-Ent



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