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Ship Rarity, Badges, and You |
Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
|  Posted: 2008-06-29 06:32
alright, i see your point now. i can do most of those already. but it's still awesome to pull off a 50 GU point jump within the enemy and make them jump out of their pants.
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captain of the ICC Assault Cruiser C.S.S. Sledgehammer
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2008-06-29 17:21
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On 2008-06-29 06:18, Enterprise wrote:
Point jumping is not a skill in the true sense of the word. It is primarily a Dreadnought class ship tactic, that is used to overcome its supposed disadvantages of manueverability and speed. It does not find applications beyond Dreadnought class ships, as smaller ships generally do not want to get closer than they have to. Stations do not use point jump because a five minute timer is infeasible against anything except other stations.
-Ent
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Of course point jumping is an skill, some ppl can do it well, some ppl do it very well and then ofc u got ppl that cant do it. So then it classifies as a skill.
And to the point that only dreads have an advantage of point jumping is all wrong, all ships can benefit of point jumping.
About the dreadspace, then as always people will use the best ships. Why do u have a ranking system? To get accses to bether ships and so on. Then u have the ability to fly spesific ships for each purpose...and i belive that some ppl that know how to fly spesific ships like crusiers can beat dreads in battle. But then again the devs wants this to be a team bases game. So the point is that there shouldnt be a solo battle. And in big figths its not always the best to have the biggest ships that is most easy to hit.
And i also migth add its very easy to get accses to a dread in this game so i hope something will be done about that...VA and some easy badges and u got a dread..
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2008-06-30 00:20
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On 2008-06-29 17:21, Tommas [ KSF HunnyBunny ] wrote:
Of course point jumping is an skill, some ppl can do it well, some ppl do it very well and then ofc u got ppl that cant do it. So then it classifies as a skill.
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So is eating breakfast a skill? Riding a bike? Driving a car?
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And to the point that only dreads have an advantage of point jumping is all wrong, all ships can benefit of point jumping.
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Wrong. A destroyer isn't going to point jump a dread and get off :awesome: free
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About the dreadspace, then as always people will use the best ships. Why do u have a ranking system? To get accses to bether ships and so on. Then u have the ability to fly spesific ships for each purpose...and i belive that some ppl that know how to fly spesific ships like crusiers can beat dreads in battle. But then again the devs wants this to be a team bases game. So the point is that there shouldnt be a solo battle. And in big figths its not always the best to have the biggest ships that is most easy to hit.
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The problem is that nobody will want to fly the ship requiring "skill" when they can just :awesome: and space bar mash in their "loldread"
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And i also migth add its very easy to get accses to a dread in this game so i hope something will be done about that...VA and some easy badges and u got a dread..
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Thats what this whole thread .....was(?) about
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2008-06-30 00:27
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On 2008-06-29 00:18, 1000 aremoredemocraticandsocialist Block wrote:
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On 2008-06-28 23:49, Smartin wrote:
In my opinion point jumping a target that is moving while you are moving is an art. It takes practice and skill. I would hate to see that part of the game go away.
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Theirs a mathmatical formula to it, and it's incredibly easy once you know it.
I just wish I knew the formula.
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you dont even need a forumla, all you need is like 1 practice jump and a little estimation will ensure that you get within 20 gu of the target
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2008-06-30 01:55
Rob pretty much said what I was going to, however I want to address a specfic point.
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About the dreadspace, then as always people will use the best ships. Why do u have a ranking system? To get accses to bether ships and so on. Then u have the ability to fly spesific ships for each purpose...and i belive that some ppl that know how to fly spesific ships like crusiers can beat dreads in battle. But then again the devs wants this to be a team bases game. So the point is that there shouldnt be a solo battle. And in big figths its not always the best to have the biggest ships that is most easy to hit.
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The point of a ranking system, or any kind of system like it, would get access to better things.
In other games.
However, DS is a bit different, DS has always been centered around different, not better. Everything has a role to play in fleet combat, and in turn that means that all people have to work together to win.
If something is better (e.g. Dreads) then obviously, more people are going to use it. Its not about whether they like Dreads more, whether or not its whats needed at the time, its because its better. That means that everything else has a dminished role.
It is true, in the actual balance of DS, that Dreadnoughts are the biggest target, and therefore likely to be hit more often. But this is only true when there are few dreadnoughts around. If mostly everyone is in Dreadnoughts, then you aren't really singled out.
And as stated before, Dreadnoughts aren't hard to get, infact, the lowest ranked dreadnought is the same rank as the highest ranked cruiser. Its not much of a jump at all. Get a few easy badges, churn up some prestige points by sitting around in a supply, boom, you got yourself a dread.
No mess, no worries, no fuss. As long as you know how to press spacebar and point-jump, you're a great Dreadnought pilot. And for long range dreadnoughts, you don't even need to know how to do the latter.
-Ent
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CrashDown
Cadet
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 63
From: Estonia
| Posted: 2008-06-30 05:33
so essentially what your suggesting up until this point is moving dreads further away, but what happens when everyone catches up to that further away point? move it agan and again?!
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2008-06-30 08:13
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On 2008-06-30 05:33, CrashDown wrote:
so essentially what your suggesting up until this point is moving dreads further away, but what happens when everyone catches up to that further away point? move it agan and again?!
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Already noted before its a temporary solution with additional benefits (more experienced dreadnought pilots, more challenges to overcome, gives older players something to do etc.)
However it is not unheard of in most MMO's to either make higher tiered things harder and harder to get as time goes on, or add more powerful/better/more expensive things as the life of the MMO ages on.
It has already been done once at that start of 1.483 by adding Grand Admiral (that might have been 1.482 actually) and pushing up the ranks on ships in general (lowest Dreadnought rank used to be 2nd Rear Admiral). So even DS has practiced its like.
However its been 3 years since and obviously, people have caught up. The bomber prestige exploit allowed people to pretty much bypass that extension anyways.
I also want to point out that attaining things quickly is a bad thing. Havent you ever cheated in a single player game to get everything instantly, only to find yourself bored within a few hours? Thats because once you have everything, theres no more challenge, nothing left to achieve, no more real, concrete rewards to attain. Without that, older players lose interest as theres only so many times you can fly the same ships, against the same people in the same scenarios. Though as DS is a PvP based game (and an incredibly addicting one at that), the amount of time neccessary for stagnation to set in is somewhat long (on the order of years).
As nice as it is to have everything... after a while don't you wish you had something more to earn than just prestige?
-Ent
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CrashDown
Cadet
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 63
From: Estonia
| Posted: 2008-06-30 11:26
im bored with this argument, so i give up, ill just nuke my way to FA since theres noone to sup or to shoot. and the higher you put requirements the less i as a player want to get em, grand admiral ? are you kidding me ? im not even gonna bother trying to get there (which is a bad thing).
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Deltabacon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 17, 2007
Posts: 395
From: Liverpool, Great Britain
| Posted: 2008-06-30 12:13
he actually has a point, its long enough to get admiral even, never mind FA or even GA. i think this is a flawed idea.
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2008-06-30 12:52
Crash, you just summed up why your opinion in this matter is neither valued or valid.
For the love of Josef READ THE FRAKING THEAD! This is about 1.5! That means Much easier combat prestige, Much easier Supply Prestige... oh and hey, guess what... NO MORE BOMB EXPLOITING!
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Darkspace: Twilight
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2008-06-30 12:59
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On 2008-06-30 12:13, Deltaflyer *OPS* wrote:
he actually has a point, its long enough to get admiral even, never mind FA or even GA. i think this is a flawed idea.
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Since you two seem obsessed with taking an analogy too literally...
I'm going to show a little math, that if anyone actually bothered to look at, would realize "Hey! This isn't quite right..."
Now as we know, each and every stat = a prestige modifer. That is, specific things in your profile = prestige.
The multipiers for the stats for the badges are:
3 prestige for every one combat point. (ships damaged)
1 prestige for every engineering (construction), supply (ships repaired), and bombing point (planets damaged).
5 prestige for every transport point (planets captured).
And .1 prestige for every jump (Jumps, obviously).
Now factoring that all in, for Gold Star:
(1000*3) + ((1000*1)*3) + (5*100) + (.1*1000) = 6,600.
Yeah. six thousand, six hundred prestige. Thats barely above first rear admiral.
Thats not even one-tenth the rank requirement of Grand Admiral.
This doesnt even factor in friendly fire and resources lost, because they would only lower your rank. No matter what, your stats don't go down (except engineering when you scrap planets), so all you ever have to do, is gain a total of 6,600 prestige in the approriate amounts and you're done.
Now do you see?
-Ent
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2008-06-30 13:23
i 100% agree on the bages.
I want to see platinum badges, why? becaue DS gets a "tad" boring after reaching GA. Theres no goal (pres wise), i see some have stated that if u get over 100k pres it dosnt mather if u lose a ship, is entirely wrong thoug. I hate losin ships even if i am GA.
But the gap btw crusiers and dreads needs to be alot higher, as ent said that u only needed 6,6k to get all badges. But u can make it so u got 2 more badges perhaps..so 5-6k as jack wanted, that gives u the first dread..then to 20k to get the assault dreads perhaps...
Id love to see this happening, simply due to the fact that i now have a goal to reach for. And also as ent says that dreads are very powerfull, not to mention stations...FA is all u need and for a player thats abit more online then the rest it wont take long to get FA.
About the point jumping i just had a little thougt about it. As i see beams are powerfull at close combat, then im just guesing cannons is more like long range weapons..so why not make the guns do less damage at close range then alot bigger damage at longer range...that also makes it more fun to say dodge and all the wonderfull art of combat like point aim to shoot someone to be alot more intresting.
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2008-06-30 18:36
I like that idea, an ideal range for maximum damage. But as you get too close or far away, damage drops off.
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VCA since June 5th 06
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2008-06-30 19:21
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On 2008-06-30 18:36, doda *EP5* (No Longer Exception...) wrote:
I like that idea, an ideal range for maximum damage. But as you get too close or far away, damage drops off.
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we are not EvE. no.
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captain of the ICC Assault Cruiser C.S.S. Sledgehammer
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2008-06-30 19:59
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On 2008-06-30 19:21, leonide *EP5* wrote:
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On 2008-06-30 18:36, doda *EP5* (No Longer Exception...) wrote:
I like that idea, an ideal range for maximum damage. But as you get too close or far away, damage drops off.
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we are not EvE. no.
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I think that already happens...
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