Author |
Sparrows ruin the game |
Great Budda Fleet Admiral Pitch Black
Joined: January 01, 2008 Posts: 157 From: Omaha, NE
| Posted: 2010-06-29 01:15  
It's just a learning curve. The usual PD doesn't work so other tactics need to be employed to defend. For instance I spent most of my time in a frigate chasing down missile frigates so other players could jump in to take care of them. You can track them fairly easily and with some ECCM are targetable. You can also beacon them to make them more visible. It's just getting used to something new. I'm sure it's going to be the same thing with the level 2 and 3 missile deployments too....
_________________
|
Stevefin Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 13, 2007 Posts: 35
| Posted: 2010-06-29 01:40  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 00:58, Slycon *MW* wrote:
4. I think there should be about 15 less missles per frig. the amount they currently carry is far to much.
|
|
Is in beta right now, Down to 20 per missle slot
_________________
|
Kangaroosteak Grand Admiral
Joined: April 03, 2010 Posts: 149 From: Somewhere...
| Posted: 2010-06-29 01:58  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-28 17:38, Enterprise wrote:
He's angry because he tried to jump three frigates in his carrier dreadnaught and died.
-Ent
|
|
sparrowspamopmuch? [ This Message was edited by: Original Milk on 2010-06-29 02:01 ]
_________________ The Gaifens call to me!
|
Jim Starluck Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001 Posts: 2232 From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2010-06-29 02:26  
As I've said before, if people are whining this much over Missile Frigates, just imagine the epic-level QQing when we deploy updated Missile Cruisers.
_________________ If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger space battleship and try again.
|
DiepLuc Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010 Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-06-29 02:31  
The only complainment of me is: MF too OP, so who will use MD?
MD is much stronger than MF, but it has less usage. MF can jump again and again to restart spamming missiles, while MD can't do that. More important, MF is extreme at hiding, and it's small size allow avoiding armor. Nevertheless, MF can spawn at gate at unlimited time, and who cares of a death in MF?
Same fact to bomber fri. With the new bomber fri, people will forget bomber cruiser and bomber dread.
Of course the new fri encourage people to USE-ALL-SHIPS, rather than station and dread, so I support the new fris. Player who doesn't know how to deal with MF or HF is not deserved to fly dread.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-29 02:39  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 02:31, Diep Luc wrote:
The only complainment of me is: MF too OP, so who will use MD?
MD is much stronger than MF, but it has less usage. MF can jump again and again to restart spamming missiles, while MD can't do that. More important, MF is extreme at hiding, and it's small size allow avoiding armor. Nevertheless, MF can spawn at gate at unlimited time, and who cares of a death in MF?
Same fact to bomber fri. With the new bomber fri, people will forget bomber cruiser and bomber dread.
Of course the new fri encourage people to USE-ALL-SHIPS, rather than station and dread, so I support the new fris. Player who doesn't know how to deal with MF or HF is not deserved to fly dread.
|
|
The MC or MD will carry heavier missiles in larger numbers. The amount of damage they can do with one volley will be worth the risk.
_________________ ... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Starcommander Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005 Posts: 579 From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-29 02:46  
one thing all these noob UGTO keep forgetting is. THESE ARE UPDATES! The next class in line is the dessys, then cruisers and so on and so forth. If you think the MF is OP now, just wait till the dreads get done, stations won't stand a chance until there turn comes around. I have said that time and time again, and it falls of deaf ears every time. So what if the MF is OP now, sommin better will be coming along to one up it.
The MF has a lot of ECM on it so that it CAN hide, otherwise if a dread or station so much as looked at it funny, it would blow up. I have seen harrier frigates used against my SS/SCB, in pairs at the most, I can kick on all my ECCM/scanner and pick them up on sensors 1500gu out, or more if they are shooting. Its not much but you CAN shoot back at them. If they are in a group of 3+ then just move away or get a scout and find them.
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
|
Jim Starluck Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001 Posts: 2232 From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2010-06-29 03:36  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 02:46, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
one thing all these noob UGTO keep forgetting is. THESE ARE UPDATES! The next class in line is the dessys, then cruisers and so on and so forth. If you think the MF is OP now, just wait till the dreads get done, stations won't stand a chance until there turn comes around. I have said that time and time again, and it falls of deaf ears every time. So what if the MF is OP now, sommin better will be coming along to one up it.
|
|
Precisely.
Drafell and I are already working on the Destroyer layouts. There are a few issues we need to tackle; Draf's making nifty new missiles for one of the K'luth destroyers, and we need to make sure that the upgunned Escort and Picket destroyers don't become the ultimate close-range beamboats and wind up supplanting the actual combat destroyers, as they've done in the past
Rest assured, though, that the gap between the introduction of Frigates and Destroyers should be a lot shorter than the one between Scouts and Frigates.
Quote:
|
The MF has a lot of ECM on it so that it CAN hide, otherwise if a dread or station so much as looked at it funny, it would blow up. I have seen harrier frigates used against my SS/SCB, in pairs at the most, I can kick on all my ECCM/scanner and pick them up on sensors 1500gu out, or more if they are shooting. Its not much but you CAN shoot back at them. If they are in a group of 3+ then just move away or get a scout and find them.
|
|
Yes, exactly this. The Missile frigate's defense, first and foremost, is its ECM. If an enemy ship gets into attack range they can see it visually, and it is practically defenseless at that distance. A close-combat Frigate, Destroyer or Cruiser can make short work of them; a Dread can pretty much blow them out of the sky in a single alpha-strike. Incidentally, for this reason I'm going to change the Harrier to carry ECM by default, as it is wildly more successful in this configuration, and my policy when designing ships is that they should be effective in their default configuration, rather than requiring modding before they can be used well.
Also, the upcoming changes to the Sparrow Missiles (which you can preview in the Beta server) will change the behavior of the Missile and Harrier frigates substantially. They drain a lot more power now, which also means the signature they add to the ship when recharging is significantly higher. Each missile now adds 1.0 signature, meaning the ship's total signature jumps up by 4.0 when it fires a full salvo. At even one-half max speed their ECM can just barely mask this, and the ship loses energy steadily. A single enemy ship running ECCM will reveal it, and if it speeds up to evade attack it loses energy even faster.
Missile and Harrier frigates are very specialized ships. They excel at doing what they are designed to do, which is to attack large ships while evading detection and destruction. They fail miserably at engaging anything about Cruiser-sized or smaller, so employ those ships and you can defeat them much more easily than they defeat Dreadnoughts and Stations.
Oh, and one last note... once they get introduced, the new Combat and Gunboat Destroyers will be the ideal ships for hunting down missile frigates, so the days of their supremacy are numbered no matter what.
_________________ If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger space battleship and try again.
|
Schroedingers Gun Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 24, 2010 Posts: 99 From: favour6
| Posted: 2010-06-29 03:53  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 03:36, Jim Starluck wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 02:46, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
one thing all these noob UGTO keep forgetting is. THESE ARE UPDATES! The next class in line is the dessys, then cruisers and so on and so forth. If you think the MF is OP now, just wait till the dreads get done, stations won't stand a chance until there turn comes around. I have said that time and time again, and it falls of deaf ears every time. So what if the MF is OP now, sommin better will be coming along to one up it.
|
|
Precisely.
Drafell and I are already working on the Destroyer layouts. There are a few issues we need to tackle; Draf's making nifty new missiles for one of the K'luth destroyers, and we need to make sure that the upgunned Escort and Picket destroyers don't become the ultimate close-range beamboats and wind up supplanting the actual combat destroyers, as they've done in the past
Rest assured, though, that the gap between the introduction of Frigates and Destroyers should be a lot shorter than the one between Scouts and Frigates.
Quote:
|
The MF has a lot of ECM on it so that it CAN hide, otherwise if a dread or station so much as looked at it funny, it would blow up. I have seen harrier frigates used against my SS/SCB, in pairs at the most, I can kick on all my ECCM/scanner and pick them up on sensors 1500gu out, or more if they are shooting. Its not much but you CAN shoot back at them. If they are in a group of 3+ then just move away or get a scout and find them.
|
|
Yes, exactly this. The Missile frigate's defense, first and foremost, is its ECM. If an enemy ship gets into attack range they can see it visually, and it is practically defenseless at that distance. A close-combat Frigate, Destroyer or Cruiser can make short work of them; a Dread can pretty much blow them out of the sky in a single alpha-strike. Incidentally, for this reason I'm going to change the Harrier to carry ECM by default, as it is wildly more successful in this configuration, and my policy when designing ships is that they should be effective in their default configuration, rather than requiring modding before they can be used well.
Also, the upcoming changes to the Sparrow Missiles (which you can preview in the Beta server) will change the behavior of the Missile and Harrier frigates substantially. They drain a lot more power now, which also means the signature they add to the ship when recharging is significantly higher. Each missile now adds 1.0 signature, meaning the ship's total signature jumps up by 4.0 when it fires a full salvo. At even one-half max speed their ECM can just barely mask this, and the ship loses energy steadily. A single enemy ship running ECCM will reveal it, and if it speeds up to evade attack it loses energy even faster.
Missile and Harrier frigates are very specialized ships. They excel at doing what they are designed to do, which is to attack large ships while evading detection and destruction. They fail miserably at engaging anything about Cruiser-sized or smaller, so employ those ships and you can defeat them much more easily than they defeat Dreadnoughts and Stations.
Oh, and one last note... once they get introduced, the new Combat and Gunboat Destroyers will be the ideal ships for hunting down missile frigates, so the days of their supremacy are numbered no matter what.
|
|
and yet the range got dropped far too short, i ahve played the beta 1.6kgu is far too short, now there will be little need to point jump them just fly at them, from tests we have done Peris will now be used, TY UGTO size queens for your QQ vive la DREADspace
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-29 04:10  
Sounds good so far. Can't wait for the dessies' and cruisers' turns.
But one thing, Devs... If you eventually upgrade the dreads and stations, I hope it won't bring everything back to square one again.... i.e. the point before the frigs with Sparrows were introduced. After all, you upgrade the small ships and they have an edge over the bigger ones... and once you upgrade the bigger ones, it all evens out again. Back to square one?
A lot of us hope to have dreads and stations be weak in some aspect against smaller ships. It achieves 3 things
- Make people use smaller ships to effectively attack larger ships, instead of Clash of the Titans all of the time
- Forces some ppl to get into smaller ships to counter those smaller ships
- Gives n00bs a chance against higher ranked players
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-29 04:34 ]
_________________ ... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Schroedingers Gun Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 24, 2010 Posts: 99 From: favour6
| Posted: 2010-06-29 04:42  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 04:10, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Sounds good so far. Can't wait for the dessies' and cruisers' turns.
But one thing, Devs... If you eventually upgrade the dreads and stations, I hope it won't bring everything back to square one again.... i.e. the point before the frigs with Sparrows were introduced. After all, you upgrade the small ships and they have an edge over the bigger ones... and once you upgrade the bigger ones, it all evens out again. Back to square one?
A lot of us hope to have dreads and stations be weak in some aspect against smaller ships. It achieves 3 things
- Make people use smaller ships to effectively attack larger ships, instead of Clash of the Titans all of the time
- Forces some ppl to get into smaller ships to counter those smaller ships
- Gives n00bs a chance against higher ranked players
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-29 04:34 ]
|
|
yes but some people *cough* UGTO *cough* will only be happy in dread space and do not want new players to have a chance after all VA and under are just supply bots
_________________
|
Bardiche Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006 Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-06-29 05:16  
Drafell stated in chat some time that the game is meant to be played primarily at Cruiser-level - or rather, that your ship-of-choice should be Cruiser, and that deployment of Dreadnoughts and Stations is only warranted with a supporting fleet.
Right presently, with Missile Frigates and Harrier Frigates, you cannot deloy a Dreadnought without having someone to screen missiles and someone to chase off the small frigates. In that sense, it becomes more profitable to fly small ships because you do not need people specialised for those tasks, and Sparrows are less effective against ships that can evade.
I myself find Harriers some of the most annoying ships in the game and think they hit obnoxiously hard. I believe however that it does exemplify how Dreadnoughts are not the be-all and end-all of combat, and deploying Missile Frigates is simply our way of saying, "We'd like combat to involve less Stations". That we now taunt UGTO has to do with how we feel the message is never picked up on.
Do forgive the ICC for feeling rather smug about the latest addition to Frigates - we've had to suck it up when UGTO repaired to 100% armour in 10 seconds, and when UGTO deployed six Stations "just to prove a point" - namely that they did not want us in Missile Dreadnoughts. Now, it's ICC who's making a point.
It is unfortunate you believe playing in the Procyon server will change this update. It would be better to follow the example of Steveyk and some others, who will re-deploy in Defence Frigates and Interceptor Frigates to destroy our Missile Frigates or at least chase them off.
_________________
|
NoBoDx Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003 Posts: 784 From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-06-29 05:18  
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-29 02:26, Jim Starluck wrote:
As I've said before, if people are whining this much over Missile Frigates, just imagine the epic-level QQing when we deploy updated Missile Cruisers.
|
|
cant wait the QQ when the updatet missle-stations hit the live-servers
_________________ The only good 'ooman is a dead 'ooman. An' da only fing better than a dead 'ooman'z a dyin' 'ooman who tell you where ter find 'is mates.
|
Schroedingers Gun Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 24, 2010 Posts: 99 From: favour6
| Posted: 2010-06-29 05:58  
no doubt when the new missles go live there will be even more QQ and they will get nurfed and UGTO will get their DREADspace back, there has already been talk in ICC to swap to UGTO, it that happens then we have a 2 faction game UGTO will own every thing and the game will die
_________________
|
Siginau Fleet Admiral Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 72
| Posted: 2010-06-29 06:40  
i wish stations and dreads would have no chance of hitting dessies and below at any efficiency ... but if they were standing still theyd be instagibbed.
so lots of damage but slow projectyles
_________________
|
|