| Author |
Not enough upgrades on higher level ships. |
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
|  Posted: 2009-02-04 21:05
I just wanted to say that I don't really think that the amount of difference between a VA and an A's ships are really not that big and I don't think that's good. Especially when you talk about FA and GA. The amount of pres to get from one to the other is huge but the weapon and armor or shields are tiny.
I think Palestar should at least make one a quarter stronger then the other. I've been looking over the ships and come to see that an Admirals ship is bearly stronger then an VA's ship. That kind of makes me feel unmotivated to level up. I can see the motivation in going from Admiral to FA and GA because of the station, but I can't see the motivation from going from VA to Admiral. Even then the station is really underpowered and underarmored.
Lower level ships go through so much power change but higher level ships go through almost no change.
Could this be changed a bit?
WTH, this is the fourth time I tried to edit my post it's not working.
[ This Message was edited by: DyingReaper on 2009-02-04 21:16 ]
[ This Message was edited by: DyingReaper on 2009-02-04 22:47 ]
_________________
|
Sir Diablos {C?}
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 37
From: Scotland
| Posted: 2009-02-04 21:28
amen !
_________________
Shoot First, Ask Questions later
|
Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:05
Odd; we get more complaints that smaller ships are useless versus bigger ships than that bigger ships aren't relatively strong enough.
I think judging just from the volume of complaints/requests/suggestions that you're in the minority with your opinion.
[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2009-02-05 07:09 ]
_________________
* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
|
Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:31
I think he's more referring to the difference between, say, a Combat Dread and an Assault Dread. I think. I could be wrong.
If I am, then Dreads and Stations are much stronger than smaller ships now than they've ever been in the past. Which is why they're the dominant force in the game.
_________________
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger space battleship and try again.
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:34
I think you're looking at it all wrong DyingReaper. For one, going from VA to A is just another step toward FA and GA which should be your real goal.
It's also obvious in this version that the highest ranked ships (namely, dreads and stations) are too powerful vs cruisers and destroyers. You can barely dent a dread with a cruiser or destroyer, especially if that dread is UGTO (seriously, what's up with UGTO's massive amount of armor? An UGTO missile destroyer easily absorbed a siphon's alpha today, and that's not an isolated case)
If you don't feel motivated to level up, then just enjoy the game and level up slowly as you play. You eventually will. Or, level up to Admiral but don't worry about the ships you get, because your real goal is FA. And don't be thinking that combat is the only way to level up. Too many people think like that. Not saying you do, but don't start if you don't think like that yet 
I think cruisers and destroyers need a slight boost, not the dreads. And not just in cannon power because most kluth ships don't rely on cannons. They all need a slight overall boost.
EDIT: I forget what the other factions get at Admiral, but for Kluth you get the Mandible, and the Ganglia if you have gold support badge. That's a tremendous boost in power over the puny Scale.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-04 22:38 ]
_________________
|
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:42
I'm sure that small ships are pretty weak against big ships but that's not the point. At a low level say 600 pres you can't expect to keep up with an A and GA, and even though they have small weak ships they are still newbes so it's not a big deal. What I'm talking about is someone with say 20k - 60k+ pres. The difference in these ships should be huge because of the huge amount of pres that is required.
I just took a look at some Admiral ships and I was kind of dissapointed because I'm getting so close to Admiral. The amount of power difference between these ships are practically non-exsistant. VA and A ships are pretty much the same. To add to that, there's only (I think) 2 different ships I can use in kluth and a few in other fractions.
What I'm saying is, if you can get owned by a VA when you are a GA then something is wrong here. I've seen many FA and GA lose to or almost lose to many VA and A's. I think this needs to change a bit. Give higher levels more of an advantage. If not for the game then at least for their time. Think about how much money and time they spend to get there.
_________________
|
Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:46
A lot of the high level players never earned their way up - they don't have the slightest clue how to fly & don't know a damn thing about the teamwork that is required for DS combat. It's not a matter of ships, its just that the players suck. They 'sploit & abuse their way to rank thus didn't learn the valuable lessons that most people who struggle up do.
_________________
Do I really look like a guy with a plan?
'I'm gonna go crazy, and I'm taking you with me!'
ICC Security Council Chief Enforcer
|
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:49
I've been trying to fix my grammer problem on the first post but it's not going through so hope you guys can understand what I wrote xD.
_________________
|
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-04 22:58
There was one more thing that I though could get some fixing. Enhancement for higher rank players. I think higher level players should get a bit more room for enhancements, just because.... xD
_________________
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-04 23:09
I disagree with it all. This game is not like WoW, where the most important thing in PvP is your level. If a GA is getting owned by a VA then that VA is a skilled pilot. There is no reason for a very high rank player to have a big advantage just because he's high rank. This isn't that kind of game.
In this game you gain rank to gain more ship choices, but that doesn't mean that each ship choice you gain must be better than the previous choices, at least not better enough that you wind up with a big advantage. If the game were like that, then GAs and above would be nearly unstoppable.
I personally don't like games where a person's level is the biggest factor in PvP. The great thing about this game, up until 483, is that if you chose to fly a dread as a FA you had a disadvantage to go along with it: Your mobility. You could instead choose to fly a cruiser or destroyer, but your disadvantage became your firepower. THAT's what gaining rank in this game is all about (or should be all about): More choices! Not necessarily better choices, just different choices.
Things are skewed in this version, making dreads the absolute best ship with no disadvantages like there used to be. The whole game now seems focused on earning those dreads, instead of making tactical choices in which ship to fly (and before anyone says it, yes you can still choose to fly smaller ships, but they pale in comparison to the 480 and earlier versions of themselves making them clearly inferior choices)
EDIT: The clearest example of gaining a ship choice that's not necessarily better than the previous ships, but is more a tactical choice, is stations. You gain them with FA, but they aren't necessarily better than dreads. Should they be made better than dreads simply because they're for the highest ranks? No. But you do gain the choice to use them, and depending on the situation they're great...in other situations you won't want one. And that's how the whole game should be, more or less. Currently it isn't. The jump from cruisers to dreads is a clear improvement. Destroyers to cruisers is less of an improvement but still good since destroyers do very little damage to dreads and stations.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-04 23:19 ]
_________________
|
Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-02-04 23:19
Id like to comment on this thread... so i will. hah.
I see what the OP is getting at, but your looking at it from a statistic view.
what i mean ill explain by using ICC as my base.
At vice admiral you get your first dread assuming youve aquired the nessisary badges.
The missile Dreadnaught: Slow like other dreads, has a Tier 1 jumpdrive*, and has minimal defences. 4 lasers IIRC that should be swapped out to PD lasers, so the incomming fire can be dealth with. However due to minimal shielding and next to nonexistant armour, the missile dreadnaught is a Sniper** only.
The combat dread is what you gain by making admiral. this ship has a robust armour allotment along with much improved shielding. The sniper broadside from a CD is unmatched in the game, and should be taken advantage of. However, the combat dread can work at mid range just fine. Point blank is the downfall and should be avoided. this ship also has a tier 1 jumpdrive.
Once FA is made access to the Assault dread is granted. this is a point blank specialist, and does not have the staying power of the regular line dreadnaughts (the CD's). Once the innitial assault is made this ship needs to bug out, as it will no doubt be surrounded and taking one hell of a beating. Because of the nature of this vessel its weaponry and the majority of its defences are foreward facing, and because of the massive powerdrain to weapon systems it will quickly run out of energy while not even moving. the danger is further compounded by the ships tier 2 jumpdrive***.
so in relation to the OP, the ships do not change statistically all that much. the AD probably does not have a huge difference in armour or shields. The real gain from moving up the ranks is access to different tactical choices.
when your in your first dread, you must take a sideline to the fight and aid the braulers. you move up to the CD and become the mainstay of the fleet during skirmishes. then you hit FA and are able to be the vanguard of an attack, or the cavalry to the line dreads.
so im forced to disagree with you that you dont gain much by rankin up, cause the way i see it the book of your tactical repertoire gets more chapters the higher you progress.
* Tier 1 jumpdrive: Base dreadnaught jumpdrive with regular recharge
** Sniper, a ship able to engage at long range
*** Tier 2 jumpdrive: same mechanics of a tier 1 with a longer recharge.
_________________
|
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-05 00:00
I understand where everyone is going.. But still if a small little ship can knock down your sheild at close range and you can't kill him with 5 alpha's then seriously there's something wrong. There was this one time when I was in a dread and a little destroyer was able to knock my shield down to 0% as I was not able to even get his shields down to 0. Also about flying skill, when you get to dreads and stations flying skill don't have any impact at all whether you win or lose.
I still firmly believe that a bigger advantage is still the way to go. What good is have a larger amount of choices if those choices don't make any difference. Example: what's the difference between ten 10 dollar bills and a 1 hundred dollar bill? Nothing. Sure ten 10 dollar bills might make you feel richer but it's no different. Same thing is true here.
[ This Message was edited by: DyingReaper on 2009-02-05 00:01 ]
_________________
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-05 00:08
You can use those ten 10 dollar bills in places that can't make change of a 100
This destroyer vs dread scenario you mention, is it for real? I've never seen a destroyer able to do that much damage to a dread in this version. I've seen destroyers tank a helluva lot of damage (the siphon vs destroyer scenario I mentioned above) but the destroyer didn't do any damage in return.
The only time I've seen a dread take serious damage from a smaller ship is when that dread looked AFK after ejumping out. It just sat there while a frigate (piloted by a player) found it and started slowly damaging it's armor and then hull. Even in my Kluth dreads, enemy destroyers have to swarm me before I take significant damage, and Kluth dreads have terrible armor. I can effectively ignore a destroyer that's firing at me while I attack my target, because they do no damage.
_________________
|
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-05 00:10
Well part of the reason for this was partly because of the shield bug and I was by an enemy planet but still I wasn't able to kill the destroy even with kluth lazers. I think it was a ugto battle destroyer or something.
_________________
|
Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-05 00:11
I meant a cruiser not a dread, kluth cruiser. I was in the cruiser and the ugto was in a destroyer. But still a cruiser and a destroyer should be on two different levels.
[ This Message was edited by: DyingReaper on 2009-02-05 00:14 ]
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
