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Wormhole fishing - needs to be banned. |
BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:32  
Over the past few weeks, wormhole fishing has become noticably more popular among certain players.
The problem with this, is that now, these certain players, are abusing a fault in the generation code to forcably remove dreadnaughts and stations from the playing field.
The wormhole generator cruiser, has a noticably smaller random placement chance, and places it within 500 gu of target. A lot of pilots are just targeting an enemy station or dread over and over (usually two or more do this), and spawn wormholes untill they get the target. Because the hitbox of the station and dread are large, and random placement of the WH cruiser's generator is small, the chances of getting the target station/dread are quite high.
I see this as unacceptable. Because pilots cannot use skill to remove stations and dreadnaughts from the battle, people are now using wormhole cruisers to forcably remove them with ease and low risk - not using them as intended.
Ontop of this, I've now seen (repeatidly) two ICC players (un-named) spawn wormholes INSIDE planets to try and instantly kill the target. Not even allowing them a chance to 180 and go back through, a certified kill if you get the random placement spot on. This is completly and utterly unacceptable, as it abuses a bug in the generation code. You should not be able to spawn a wormhole inside a planet or another ship. Faustus told us this when he coded the wormholes, and it's never worked properly. At first they failed too much, and now they don't fail at all. Infact, the chances of them failing are almost zero.
This has got to stop. Not only is it unreasonable to do this, it's abusing a bug in the code, and this should be stopped immediatly.
- Jack
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *SL3* *Jack* on 2006-06-02 21:34 ]
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Kanman Grand Admiral Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005 Posts: 1017 From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:38  
i absolutely agree. I NEVER use my WH devices for fishing. I use it for TRANSPORTATION! Even I myself have a fear of my station that I may suddenly be pulled from a orbit deep in a friendly cluster, 2 systems from the frontlines, and suddenly find myself in Xi Bootis or something, crashed into a planet that I have never even seen before.... thats just cheap, and adds yet another point to the list of things that make the ICC over-powered...
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:40  
It's not just ICC. It's just that the wormhole gen cruiser has a noticably higher chance at spawning wormholes on target, and it takes a lot longer to turn a station 180 to spawn a wormhole inside the planet you spawned from. I was just using the current situation as an example.
But yes, if you consider a WH as a weapon, the wormhole cruiser is over-powered.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *SL3* *Jack* on 2006-06-02 21:42 ]
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Bobamelius Grand Admiral Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 2074 From: Ohio
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:43  
I think WH fishing should be allowed as long as it's not being generated in a planet or the timer is being circumvented by SYing.
It's more of an annoyance than anything, besides that, unless you're actually strategic enough to keep a dictor and large fleet on the other side, or are in a nastily deffed planet cluster. In both of these instances it's possible to escape when you're fished.
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:44  
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On 2006-06-02 21:43, Bobamelius wrote:
I think WH fishing should be allowed as long as it's not being generated in a planet or the timer is being circumvented by SYing.
It's more of an annoyance than anything, besides that, unless you're actually strategic enough to keep a dictor and large fleet on the other side, or are in a nastily deffed planet cluster. In both of these instances it's possible to escape when you're fished.
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Wormholes can be generated inside of dictors - otherwise I'd agree.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *SL3* *Jack* on 2006-06-02 21:44 ]
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Bobamelius Grand Admiral Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 2074 From: Ohio
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:46  
Right. Turn around and fly back through it (obviously the planet def/enemy fleet will shoot you, but that's the whole point is it not?)
If in a station, make your own WH. If you don't have a WH gen on you or it's not charged, then, well, you're hosed.
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-02 21:49  
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On 2006-06-02 21:46, Bobamelius wrote:
Right. Turn around and fly back through it (obviously the planet def/enemy fleet will shoot you, but that's the whole point is it not?)
If in a station, make your own WH. If you don't have a WH gen on you or it's not charged, then, well, you're hosed.
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What happens if the target wormhole is on the fringes of a planet you're stationed at? You go back through, and you fly straight into it.
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Crim Fleet Admiral Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003 Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2006-06-02 22:01  
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On 2006-06-02 21:32, BackSlash *SL3* *Jack* wrote:
Over the past few weeks, wormhole fishing has become noticably more popular among certain players. I Am one of the Certain Players, and It is DAMN fun.
The problem with this, is that now, these certain players, are abusing a fault in the generation code to forcably remove dreadnaughts and stations from the playing field. If the enemy out number you, WormHole Fishing is a good tactic to remove some of the opposition.
The wormhole generator cruiser, has a noticably smaller random placement chance, and places it within 500 gu of target. A lot of pilots are just targeting an enemy station or dread over and over (usually two or more do this), and spawn wormholes untill they get the target. Because the hitbox of the station and dread are large, and random placement of the WH cruiser's generator is small, the chances of getting the target station/dread are quite high. I dont think there is anything wrong with it. For a WH Cruiser, there is a small chance that it will actualy hit on target. It usualy opens up 250gu, as happend earlier with you, and the pilot can safely move out of the way. If the pilot cannot, it is THEIR fault for going into the WH and what ever follows afterwards.
I see this as unacceptable. Because pilots cannot use skill to remove stations and dreadnaughts from the battle, people are now using wormhole cruisers to forcably remove them with ease and low risk - not using them as intended.Oh, me and coeus, only two active that commonly use WormHole Fishing, will usualy open a Wormhole, and if nothing is caught, we'll head back to battle. You may not see this, because you see one WormHole, log, and come rant about it, like this topic here.There are times where we dont realy have anything better to do, and will continue to open Wormholes.
Ontop of this, I've now seen (repeatidly) two ICC players (un-named) spawn wormholes INSIDE planets to try and instantly kill the target. Not even allowing them a chance to 180 and go back through, a certified kill if you get the random placement spot on. This is completly and utterly unacceptable, as it abuses a bug in the generation code. You should not be able to spawn a wormhole inside a planet or another ship. Faustus told us this when he coded the wormholes, and it's never worked properly. At first they failed too much, and now they don't fail at all. Infact, the chances of them failing are almost zero. Actualy, this doesnt kill anything below a station. Ask Feral, Coeus, Rangar, and that supply that was earlier caught. They spawn OUT of the planet and are safe. I only spawned One inside the planet, and Bob warned me. I told coeus, and we BOTH turned away fromt he planet.
This has got to stop. Not only is it unreasonable to do this, it's abusing a bug in the code, and this should be stopped immediatly.
- Jack
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| Asside from that, I notice it is Only UGTO players against this so far.
[ This Message was edited by: Crimson {Fear?} on 2006-06-02 22:04 ]
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Bobamelius Grand Admiral Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 2074 From: Ohio
| Posted: 2006-06-02 22:12  
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What happens if the target wormhole is on the fringes of a planet you're stationed at? You go back through, and you fly straight into it.
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Don't you always come out facing away from the planet?
In any case, there's a much smaller chance of that happening then if you're fished into a planet in the first place.
It's fairly obvious that your opinion on this issue will not bend regardless of what anyone says, but I am trying to find a middle ground here.
Possible exploits aside, it is a valid tactic - heck, I'd say that the very first thing we'd do in RL upon discovering WH technology is figure out how to kill stuff with it.
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Coeus Grand Admiral Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006 Posts: 2815 From: Philly
| Posted: 2006-06-02 22:14  
Without even wasting my time reading posts, No. Wrong. Wormholes were designed to get a person from point A to point B. That is it that is all. Instant travel from one part of the galaxy to another in 0 seconds. Thats all it was ever designed to do. Don't like it? Tough, don't be at point A.
Show me where it says that WHs were never intended to be offensive weapons? Show me where it says "You can only open a Wormhole here, but not there." I'll show you a canceled subscription. Stop, just stop it.
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-02 22:14  
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On 2006-06-02 22:01, Crimson {Fear?} wrote:
If the enemy out number you, WormHole Fishing is a good tactic to remove some of the opposition. |
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It's not using the wormhole as intended.
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| I dont think there is anything wrong with it. For a WH Cruiser, there is a small chance that it will actualy hit on target. It usualy opens up 250gu, as happend earlier with you, and the pilot can safely move out of the way. If the pilot cannot, it is THEIR fault for going into the WH and what ever follows afterwards. |
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What I was getting at, is that if it spawns infront of you, and you're moving, a dread cannot avoid the wormhole, and it usually hits the outer-edge of the station hitbox. Chances of avoiding it are usually the same for a direct 0gu hit.
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| Oh, me and coeus, only two active that commonly use WormHole Fishing, will usualy open a Wormhole, and if nothing is caught, we'll head back to battle. You may not see this, because you see one WormHole, log, and come rant about it, like this topic here.There are times where we dont realy have anything better to do, and will continue to open Wormholes. |
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There where more than two wormholes opened. I got three wormholes opened on me, I have screenshots of each, then there was a wormhole for Red Dragon, which you caught spot on. Then I logged off, and saw a rather nice message directed to both of you about more wormholes. So, usually open a wormhole and head back out? Please - I've seen you and others spawn many more than just one. Usually until the target is caught or logs.
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| Actualy, this doesnt kill anything below a station. Ask Feral, Coeus, Rangar, and that supply that was earlier caught. They spawn OUT of the planet and are safe. I only spawned One inside the planet, and Bob warned me. I told coeus, and we BOTH turned away fromt he planet. |
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It depends on the size of the planet. A small planet will allow the dread to JUST miss the outside of it, and if you move outwards and spawn a wormhole closer to the edge of one side of the planet, the station hits the otherside 100% of the time. Large scale planets ALWAYS kill a dread or station.
I also saw the wormholes targeted at me inside the planet, and the ones targeted for Red Dragon inside the planet. So it wasn't just one.
It is abosolutly unacceptable. Not only does it bypass a code writen to stop this kind of thing, it's forcing people to either log off, or get a smaller ship if they're not caught by the wormhole. It is not using the wormhole as intended, and it's ruining the fun for others. The moment any station starts seeing wormholes targeted at them, they're forced to logoff, or face a possible hefty prestige loss. No one wants the prestige loss, and so they log off. It's just a cheap way to lessen enemy numbers.
@Bobamelius.
It doesn't take long to turn a ship 180 and spawn a wormhole inside a planet to instantly kill large ships caught in the target wormhole.
@Coeus.
It's obvious, and anyone who was here in 1.480 can remember enough times when Faustus and Tael would preach about how the wormhole would allow fleets to move into enemy systems for combat. They where never, ever designed to be a weapon.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *SL3* *Jack* on 2006-06-02 22:16 ]
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Crim Fleet Admiral Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003 Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2006-06-02 22:16  
Well, untill you whining bunch of UGTO get it banned, I will continue to WH any ship I feel. Thanks for making a fun tactic, even funner.
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Coeus Grand Admiral Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006 Posts: 2815 From: Philly
| Posted: 2006-06-02 22:19  
A) Crim and I go out of our way to make sure that we do NOT circumvent the WH timers. That means sticking around to let the timer recharge instead of grabbing a combat.
B) And since it was brought out, I'll compromise that WHs should not be opened inside of planets and won't try to do that anymore, just to stop 1/5 of the whining if nothing else.
C) As I have said a billion times. Wormholes are designed to get people from point A to point B. Thats it thats all nothing else no more nothing to see here so long and thanks for the fish. Don't like it? Whine to faustus to get him to make it friendly-ships only.
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Guyton (Angel of Death) Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004 Posts: 706
| Posted: 2006-06-02 23:27  
Ah why bother even posting these things it just turns into something that will never be done about, and yes I agree a wormhole is used to get something from Point A to Point B. If your in the middile deal with it unless something illegaly done it makes no use to create a forum to whine and cry in.
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Enterprise Chief Marshal Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002 Posts: 2576 From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2006-06-02 23:32  
My opinion is...
I think WH fishing is a particularly creative way to use an otherwise non-offensive weapon.
Its a bit like tractor scouting. Are you going to ban that, because it wasn't intended to push people into planets?
In truth, WH fishing - when done within the confines of the RoC - allows for a way to use an otherwise transportation device as a relatively deadly weapon. I for one, think its a brilliant tactic.
The only thing I dislike about WH fishing, is when the WH causes your ship to enter and exit rapidly from both sides, which can happen occasionally.
Pretty much going to state, just because something is not being used as it was designed, does not mean you cannot use it creatively. Since it is based on chance, and otherwise requires some skill to get close enough to use it, I'll have to vote it as a perfectly valid tactic.
-Ent
And Coeus summed it up better than me.
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