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VOTE YES OR NO |
Hakketak
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 301
|  Posted: 2012-12-27 17:00
i like the idea of ship tiers. higher rank unlocks more awesome frigates and dessies hell yeah!
So u cannot fly the top tier 3 ship anymore because they finally gave use to the marshall and CM rank like ppl have been asking for years? Woot good job devs, you listenend to years of constructive arguments and gave CM rank purpose.
Honestly, what is the problem? that some ships require more pres because they have been made more awesome? i dont see how that is a problem...takes some creative thinking.
[ This Message was edited by: Ubawaus on 2012-12-27 18:46 ]
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2012-12-27 17:01
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On 2012-12-27 16:56, Bladerunner2014 wrote:
Seems ICC players so far like the tier system, which makes sense because alot of them love their HC over any other ship....However, isn't that one of the dynamics for choosing ICC? and...if there is already a player faction in use for those kind of players that like to fly small ships around, doesnt that make the new tier system redundant? I am sure kluth players prefer kluth for their own reasons, same as ugto. The tier system will dilute the individual core characteristics of each faction.
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It'll advance them rather than dilute. ICC players enjoy their Heavy Cruiser over their Dreadnoughts because they enjoy mobility over slugging it out. To say nothing of how both UGTO and K'Luth are superior at slugging it out (and inferior at mobility).
It doesn't make the new tier system redundant, as a Heavy Cruiser is weaker than a Battle Dreadnought in all respects but speed. It's like comparing apples and pears.
Moreover, in a PVP game, all players should equally be able to field answers to their opponents. If UGTO players feel that they cannot have fun except buy using Stations and Dreadnoughts, the design of the system is not appropriate. If K'Luth feel that their Dreadnoughts have no disadvantages to their other ships, there is something wrong with the system.
"Individual core characteristics" doesn't apply in this case, as you're just talking about UGTO and K'Luth preferring Dreadnoughts. That's not individual, that just drags them back in line with ICC, IF your hypothesis is correct.
Each of the three factions should have all the same reasons for fielding a Dreadnought or a Heavy Cruiser.
EDIT: HC isn't impossible to kill with only one EAD, but it is exceedingly difficult. The problem is that UGTO's response to a HC is logging off.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2012-12-27 17:02 ]
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-12-27 17:10
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On 2012-12-27 17:01, Bardiche wrote:
It'll advance them rather than dilute. ICC players enjoy their Heavy Cruiser over their Dreadnoughts because they enjoy mobility over slugging it out. To say nothing of how both UGTO and K'Luth are superior at slugging it out (and inferior at mobility).
It doesn't make the new tier system redundant, as a Heavy Cruiser is weaker than a Battle Dreadnought in all respects but speed. It's like comparing apples and pears.
Moreover, in a PVP game, all players should equally be able to field answers to their opponents. If UGTO players feel that they cannot have fun except buy using Stations and Dreadnoughts, the design of the system is not appropriate. If K'Luth feel that their Dreadnoughts have no disadvantages to their other ships, there is something wrong with the system.
"Individual core characteristics" doesn't apply in this case, as you're just talking about UGTO and K'Luth preferring Dreadnoughts. That's not individual, that just drags them back in line with ICC, IF your hypothesis is correct.
Each of the three factions should have all the same reasons for fielding a Dreadnought or a Heavy Cruiser.
EDIT: HC isn't impossible to kill with only one EAD, but it is exceedingly difficult. The problem is that UGTO's response to a HC is logging off.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2012-12-27 17:02 ]
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This pretty much sums up everything. I vote yes (if it even matters). Having more ships to master means more choices for destroying my enemies. When has that ever been a bad thing. As to not being able to fly an EAD or the t3 dread in the future, I'm sure if you actually worked at it you could easily grind enough prestige to make it to Chief Marshal. 
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2012-12-27 17:35
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On 2012-12-27 16:56, Bladerunner2014 wrote:
Seems ICC players so far like the tier system, which makes sense because alot of them love their HC over any other ship (which is impossible to kill with one EAD)....However, isn't that one of the dynamics for choosing ICC? and...if there is already a player faction in use for those kind of players that like to fly small ships around, doesnt that make the new tier system redundant? I am sure kluth players prefer kluth for their own reasons, same as ugto. The tier system will dilute the individual core characteristics of each faction.
had to mention: two new players just talking about their excitement about getting a battle dread....won't they be disappointed soon?...they don't have a clue what is about to change:(
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Good to see that none of which i said sunk in at all. As i told you and achilles. The new tier system give VARITY to this game which ships have been near the same for years.
Learn to fly my dear blade, i have killed HCs and others in my EAD while i was on UGTO.
ICC was forced in to smaller ships due to how much more effective UGTO dreads were VS ICC dreads and to give a better chance suriving Vs Luth (hard to kill what you cant catch). And because of that We became GOOD at piloting those small ships.
The tier system will actully ADD to the characteristics of the game. since now there will be More viable options to defeat different opponents.
And if you had read jims info about the systems and looked at what jack put up those two players will Retain the use of the Battle dread abit in an altered form.
ANYWAY my say is yes, DS need some more diversity whith ships and give a new life(so to speak) to the game. And will actully help to negate some of that dread spam and Hopefully get people to fly something other than the So called Best ship for each fraction
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2012-12-27 17:44
I don't like the rier system but i want it, I feel it will balance the game out, and Blade just sayign your mad that you don't get your precious EAD maybe you should try using a different ship, and if you have such a dislike for this idea that others support can you deal with it yourself and try not to sstart a riot, and if you really keep on having issues with it you can always just stop playing.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2012-12-27 17:59
If anything the tier system will make prestige gain easier by making combat less focused on who has the biggest ship.
By removing the top heavyness of the current system, players will be much more capable of responding to threats regardless of their rank, by making useful combat ships be available much sooner. The elitism of the current system is also hindering any kind of growth. We can no longer afford to cater to the top 10%.
Prestige gain is current higher than its ever been, and prestige loss has been reduced just as much. This is the kind of system that will get many more people playing longer, not being stuck in rutty ships for days on end, and giving new players an actual feel of progression - delegating people to support roles isn't fun unless they want to be in that role.
More people = more combat. More combat = more prestige. Everyone wins.
-Ent
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-27 18:20
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On 2012-12-27 17:59, Enterprise wrote:
Prestige gain is current higher than its ever been
-Ent
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Wrong
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UnknownWarrior
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 724
From: North Carolina, USA
| Posted: 2012-12-27 18:28
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On 2012-12-27 18:20, *Two Face* wrote:
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On 2012-12-27 17:59, Enterprise wrote:
Prestige gain is current higher than its ever been
-Ent
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Wrong
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Actually Ent is right. Pres lost used to be a LOT higher than it is now and was reduced when Grand Admiral, Marshal, and Chief Marshal were added. Gaining press over 6 years ago was a lot more difficult as the pres lost per ship was way more drastic than it is now, and ships hulls were more fragile back then. The only way to gain combat pres was via hull damage ALONE. I for one endorse this change, it will attract more players, and even the playing field again, and make it less DreadSpace and more team oriented.
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BLADERUNNER2019
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan
Joined: December 18, 2010
Posts: 140
| Posted: 2012-12-27 18:40
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On 2012-12-27 17:35, Soulless. wrote:
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On 2012-12-27 16:56, Bladerunner2014 wrote:
Seems ICC players so far like the tier system, which makes sense because alot of them love their HC over any other ship (which is impossible to kill with one EAD)....However, isn't that one of the dynamics for choosing ICC? and...if there is already a player faction in use for those kind of players that like to fly small ships around, doesnt that make the new tier system redundant? I am sure kluth players prefer kluth for their own reasons, same as ugto. The tier system will dilute the individual core characteristics of each faction.
had to mention: two new players just talking about their excitement about getting a battle dread....won't they be disappointed soon?...they don't have a clue what is about to change:(
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Good to see that none of which i said sunk in at all. As i told you and achilles. The new tier system give VARITY to this game which ships have been near the same for years.
Learn to fly my dear blade, i have killed HCs and others in my EAD while i was on UGTO.
ICC was forced in to smaller ships due to how much more effective UGTO dreads were VS ICC dreads and to give a better chance suriving Vs Luth (hard to kill what you cant catch). And because of that We became GOOD at piloting those small ships.
The tier system will actully ADD to the characteristics of the game. since now there will be More viable options to defeat different opponents.
And if you had read jims info about the systems and looked at what jack put up those two players will Retain the use of the Battle dread abit in an altered form.
ANYWAY my say is yes, DS need some more diversity whith ships and give a new life(so to speak) to the game. And will actully help to negate some of that dread spam and Hopefully get people to fly something other than the So called Best ship for each fraction
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An EAD cannot kill a HC...it gets outta range too fast and jumps away!...simple as that....all an EAD can do is wait for jd to refill and jump it again...then it gets outta range and jumps away!....it has nothing to do with my skills. It is the style that ICC player wants to play...it happens all the time...ICC HC are usually ignored because all they do is zigzag around and annoy and bore everyone. BTW, your UGTO skills and knowledge need alot of development Souless.
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Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
| Posted: 2012-12-27 18:59
I like the tier idea. It looks like it will bring life to smaller ships and make it to where big ships aren't the most dominate force in the game anymore.
Sure it may seem to nerf ranks in comparison to what you get at higher ranks vs what you used to get...but it made progression more 'smoothed' over making ships progress better.
Incase anyone is not quite understanding the tier system its a system that doesn't slowly add more weapons to your fav types of ships as rank progresses...all of the ships are pre-made with full functionality. It just introduces more types of ships that are similiar to one another but require higher ranks to gain access to ships that have more versatility.
More versatility such as....a bomber thats good at fighting off other ships. Imagine....you either start off focusing on combat or bombing ships doing these various things and then as you gain rank...you can now do both!
This doesn't mean that a low rank dessie is going to have 1/10th the firepower of a high rank one. It just means that the lower end dessie will be similiar in firepower but won't get to also drop mines or bomb planets or transport increased amounts of infantry or resources....so on so forth.
This will bring about a new way of experimenting with gameplay. About finding your favorite style of gameplay amongst the dozens of ship designs as you progress and having fun with it.
The ONLY way to tell if this is a bad idea is to TRY IT. There's nothing wrong with trying something new for a month or 2 and seeing if you like the change. If you like how battles progress and if you feel like smaller ships are better now or bigger ships are not so dominating or are more dominating...
Who knows? You can't complain about a change before it even happens because NOBODY has gotten to play it yet. NOONE knows if its a good change or a bad one. So instead of speculating that it will probably turn bad try and think of it in a more positive light.
It may end up being a vast improvement that people like and if the ranking/gaining of different styles of ships turns out fun...it may be more entertaining even at lower ranks.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-27 19:41
The tier system was introduced by Jim to change the ship/rank equation from "bigger is better" to simply "better is better".
As it is now, DS is played out mostly as big fish eats little fish, which is how I perceive Blade likes it; hence him coining this little nugget:
Quote:
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On 2012-12-27 16:56, Bladerunner2014 wrote:
An EAD cannot kill a HC...it gets outta range too fast and jumps away!...simple as that....all an EAD can do is wait for jd to refill and jump it again...then it gets outta range and jumps away!....it has nothing to do with my skills. It is the style that ICC player wants to play...it happens all the time...ICC HC are usually ignored because all they do is zigzag around and annoy and bore everyone.
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Perhaps players like you just want to get out there into range with the enemy and spacebar mash till someone explodes. Believe me when I say that many players (barring you and like minded players) want more from this game than just that.
The new tier system gives the NEWER and LOWER ranked players MORE choice.
- Should they take a multirole and probably more powerful smaller ship.... or should they take out a bigger ship but with limited functionality.
"Vets" like you already have access to most of the ships. So I don't see what you're complaining about.
Actually I do see it. You're just unhappy because you've lost immediate access to your EAD. That singular ship. And the thought of gaining another 100,000+ pres irks you. Because, like the newer players, you now have to "work" (ie. Play the game) to achieve something again.
But doesn't that give you any sort of motivation? Or have you become fat and lazy after getting where you are today and just want to log in with your El-Kapow EAD and pwn little ships with impunity?
I'm in the exact same boat as you. Once the changes come into play, I'll have to work my way to CM to get access to that pretty T3 dread.
And you know what? I can't wait for it. Because having reached Marshal, I've been really bored just not worrying about pres and levelling up and just pounding AIs, noobs, or other players into space dust. I wanna have that motivation to rank up to CM.
This update is it. Plus, I'll have plenty of new ship configs to play with.
I can't wait....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-12-27 19:43 ]
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-27 19:50
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On 2012-12-27 18:28, UnknownWarrior wrote:
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On 2012-12-27 18:20, *Two Face* wrote:
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On 2012-12-27 17:59, Enterprise wrote:
Prestige gain is current higher than its ever been
-Ent
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Wrong
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Actually Ent is right. Pres lost used to be a LOT higher than it is now and was reduced when Grand Admiral, Marshal, and Chief Marshal were added. Gaining press over 6 years ago was a lot more difficult as the pres lost per ship was way more drastic than it is now, and ships hulls were more fragile back then. The only way to gain combat pres was via hull damage ALONE. I for one endorse this change, it will attract more players, and even the playing field again, and make it less DreadSpace and more team oriented.
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Ent and you are wrong and right actually. Pres loss did USED to be alot higher then it is now, Gaining pres over 6 years ago WAS alot more difficult then it is now, ship hulls may have been more fragile back then, but the enemy weapons where also less powerful making your point null. About 5 years ago there was a point when one could make 10x more pres then anyone can now, it took 1 week to make GA rank, it was a happy time for steve and flash. But when Ent said pres gain has never been as high as it is now is wrong.
Back to the topic, I will wait and see what the Dev log has to say about whats in the future about this Tier System, atm i dont like it but i feel its too soon to make an contructive arguement about it till real details are released because so far ive heard Pantheons Q&A session say one thing then heard the new Devs say other things at the beginning of this post, sounds like noone really knows whats going on atm, ill wait and see.
[ This Message was edited by: *Two Face* on 2012-12-27 20:02 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-27 20:06
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On 2012-12-27 19:50, *Two Face* wrote:
Ent and you are wrong and right actually. Pres loss did USED to be alot higher then it is now, Gaining pres over 6 years ago WAS alot more difficult then it is now, ship hulls may have been more fragile back then, but the enemy weapons where also less powerful making your point null. About 5 years ago there was a point when one could make 10x more pres then anyone can now, it took 1 week to make GA rank, it was a happy time for steve and flash. But when Ent said pres gain has never been as high as it is now is wrong.
Back to the topic, I will wait and see what the Dev log has to say about whats in the future about this Tier System, atm i like it less then i like it but i feel its too soon to make an contructive arguement about it till real details are released because so far ive heard Pantheons Q&A session say one thing then heard the new Devs say other things at the beginning of this post, sounds like noone really knows whats going on atm, ill wait and see.
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Actually the devs have access to the document outlining the plans for the tiered-system as well as the ship configs.
There's really nothing magical about the tiered system.
It simply means more ship configs; some with less varied weapon types and some with more weapons, which are then divided into groups that are distributed through the ranks.
The lower ranks get access to the ships with less variety of weapons. Vice versa for the higher ranked players. It's as simple as that.
For the longest time, ppl have been asking what M and CM are for? Well, now you have T3.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-12-27 20:07 ]
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-12-27 20:09
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On 2012-12-27 19:50, *Two Face* wrote:
Ent and you are wrong and right actually. Pres loss did USED to be alot higher then it is now, Gaining pres over 6 years ago WAS alot more difficult then it is now, ship hulls may have been more fragile back then, but the enemy weapons where also less powerful making your point null. About 5 years ago there was a point when one could make 10x more pres then anyone can now, it took 1 week to make GA rank, it was a happy time for steve and flash. But when Ent said pres gain has never been as high as it is now is wrong.
Back to the topic, I will wait and see what the Dev log has to say about whats in the future about this Tier System, atm i dont like it but i feel its too soon to make an contructive arguement about it till real details are released because so far ive heard Pantheons Q&A session say one thing then heard the new Devs say other things at the beginning of this post, sounds like noone really knows whats going on atm, ill wait and see.
[ This Message was edited by: *Two Face* on 2012-12-27 20:02 ]
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Normal prestige gain has never been as high as it is now. With the exception of 483, which was horrendously buggy and awarded hundreds, sometimes thousands of prestige from one bombing run, which should not be included in any normal statement of prestige gain.
In my Q&A session I stated that it was Jim's project, and that I had limited knowledge of it. I also stated I would ask if he would be willing to do a dev blog about it - which he has.
Your behaviour about not jumping to conclusions and not being able to make a constructive arguement until it honestly comes to light in beta are correct, however. No-one should be jumping to conclusions and stating it will ruin the game, because simply put, you do not know. You can say you do, but you don't. And that's just a fact.
I'm locking this topic - any further discussion can take place in the dev blog.
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