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Last minute changes to 1.680 before release? |
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
|  Posted: 2012-08-23 20:32
I don't remember seeing these things in the devlog last time I checked, which was just a few days ago.
Quote:
| UGTO Changes
- Can now replace their Proton Torpedoes with Flux Torpedoes, which--along with the Flux Wave and Flux Beams--will inflict extra EMP damage when they hit hull.
- EMP Cannons and EMP Mines will inflict immediate system damage, even if armor or shields are still intact.
K'luth Changes
- Can now replace their Antimatter Torpedoes with ELF Torpedoes, which don't do any damage but launch 3 torpedoes at once and require no ammo to operate. Once they hit the target, all energy sucked from the enemy ship is transferred to you! |
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Flux Torpedoes are a better fit than tracking torps, and ELF torps are a good addition to help with power issues, but EMP cannons/mines doing system damage through armor and shields? Unless it's such a piddly amount that the onboard repair can keep up with it I can't really think of how that would have a positive effect on gameplay if someone in a cannon armed ship can load up with a few EMP cannons and cause system damage to whatever target they want regardless of them having full armor/shields. Even moreso when you factor in the amount of FF that UGTO is known for.
But none of those really had enough time in beta so it may have been a mistake to push the weapon changes out with 1.680 instead of keeping them in beta until the next patch.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2012-08-23 21:09
yeah we're always sneaking in undocumented balances to make icc and kluth weaker than ugto.
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-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2012-08-23 21:17
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On 2012-08-23 21:09, Doran wrote:
yeah we're always sneaking in undocumented balances to make icc and kluth weaker than ugto.
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You're so evil Doran.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-23 21:51
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On 2012-08-23 21:09, Doran wrote:
yeah we're always sneaking in undocumented balances to make icc and kluth weaker than ugto.
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I'm pointing out that none of those 3 things were in beta long enough to really be tested. My concerns about EMP causing damage through armor/shields is not "wtf ugto bias devs" and was, again, mostly about it not being in beta long enough to really be tested. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered bringing up FF and would just have listed more reasons for that being just a plain bad idea which I'm sure I could've come up with if I'd tried.
Do Flux Torpedoes have high energy use like Flux Cannon and Flux Wave? What is the range, speed, and recharge like? What is the damage and AOE like compared to Proton Torpedoes?
Do ELF Torpedoes use energy to charge since they have no ammo? What is the range, speed, and recharge like? Do they have any amount of AOE?
Does EMP system damage infact do such a piddly amount through armor/shields that onboard repair can keep up with it? Was the damage for EMP mines changed at all to compensate for doing system damage through armor/shields? Is the armor/shield bypass scaled at all to the current % of armor/shields on the arc being damaged or is it a flat amount that bypasses?
None of this info was given and these three changes were put in a very short time before 1.680 moved from beta to release, leaving precious little time for anyone to do any amount of testing.
Not trying to knock you guys about it as the changes look great aside from my concerns about EMP damage bypassing armor/shields, but it really seems like 1.680 should have been delayed for a while, or at the very least these 3 changes left in beta until the next patch.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-08-23 22:01
We tested them considerably before we made the decision to keep them in.
Based on gameplay in the MV so far, I don't see any reason to go ape about it.
EMP Cannons cause zero damage now, fyi, and only cause system damage.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2012-08-23 22:02 ]
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-08-24 02:18
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On 2012-08-23 22:01, Pantheon wrote:
We tested them considerably before we made the decision to keep them in.
Based on gameplay in the MV so far, I don't see any reason to go ape about it.
EMP Cannons cause zero damage now, fyi, and only cause system damage.
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality on 2012-08-24 02:20 ]
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if these EMP's are gonna be ingame, tactically its gonna be suiside to jump anyone equiped with them because they can pretty much disable your ship. When you engaged me in the MV, with just 3 EMP's, you took down pretty much my whole ship and my JD recharge pretty much stopped recharging when I still had shields and armor. Not trying to be biased or anything, its just gonna be frustrating that you can get disabled so easily and its impossible to counter.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-08-24 04:17
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On 2012-08-24 02:18, Fatal Brutality wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-08-23 22:01, Pantheon wrote:
We tested them considerably before we made the decision to keep them in.
Based on gameplay in the MV so far, I don't see any reason to go ape about it.
EMP Cannons cause zero damage now, fyi, and only cause system damage.
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality on 2012-08-24 02:20 ]
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if these EMP's are gonna be ingame, tactically its gonna be suiside to jump anyone equiped with them because they can pretty much disable your ship. When you engaged me in the MV, with just 3 EMP's, you took down pretty much my whole ship and my JD recharge pretty much stopped recharging when I still had shields and armor. Not trying to be biased or anything, its just gonna be frustrating that you can get disabled so easily and its impossible to counter.
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1 on 1, that would be true. But 2 on 1, that EMP ship had better watch his six for the other ship which will probably be slicing him to ribbons.
If what you say is true, I can foresee that EMP ships will be like the Interdictors of old. That is to say, they'll probably become the first ship that are ganked.
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2012-08-24 14:49
While I can understand why you might be concerned about the new EMP changes, Jim and I did some quite comprehensive testing of them.
Basically, their system damage isn't all that. Yes, you'll take some when you get it, but it'll likely drop just one or two systems only a couple percent. A full EMP cannon BD took 50~ salvos before it could knock the weapons out on a Combat Dread, and it's unlikely you'll get hit that often in real combat especilly with the prevalence of support fields and depots.
Yes, EMP is more dangerous now, but you'll never end up in a situation where you'll completely dead in the water or screwed over by them, unless you do something daft like charge a fleet of full EMP dreads with a scout with no backup.
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Princess Luna
Captain
Joined: July 25, 2012
Posts: 24
From: Canterlot Castle
| Posted: 2012-08-24 15:31
Not true, a Lone CMD with all flux trops can cripple a Mandible to the point there's no cloak, Jd, all but one auxa gen is dead. and quite a few weapons are down... so op no?
[ This Message was edited by: Someones Alt on 2012-08-24 15:31 ]
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2012-08-24 15:46
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On 2012-08-24 14:49, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
While I can understand why you might be concerned about the new EMP changes, Jim and I did some quite comprehensive testing of them.
Basically, their system damage isn't all that. Yes, you'll take some when you get it, but it'll likely drop just one or two systems only a couple percent. A full EMP cannon BD took 50~ salvos before it could knock the weapons out on a Combat Dread, and it's unlikely you'll get hit that often in real combat especilly with the prevalence of support fields and depots.
Yes, EMP is more dangerous now, but you'll never end up in a situation where you'll completely dead in the water or screwed over by them, unless you do something daft like charge a fleet of full EMP dreads with a scout with no backup.
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only a few hits from the new emp weapods are leaving luth ships disabled
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-08-24 15:47
Only EMP cannons go through shields and armor.
All the rest require hits on hull.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-08-24 18:05
forget i said anything.
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*CO* on 2012-08-24 18:08 ]
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2012-08-24 19:20
Didnt flux wave cripple ships like this a long, long time ago?
At first glance these new EMP and flux torps would seem op but i have no idea yet, havent played since release yet
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2012-08-24 19:31
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On 2012-08-24 19:20, Apache |xTc| *XO* wrote:
Didnt flux wave cripple ships like this a long, long time ago?
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yes, if you flew an ICC missile dread full of flux waves.
and targeted frigates.
and were a member of [ESF].
and your name was Smokey.
or Peanut.
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Feralwulf
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 24, 2004
Posts: 1729
From: sitting somewhere drinking beer
| Posted: 2012-08-25 13:32
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On 2012-08-24 19:31, Doran wrote:
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On 2012-08-24 19:20, Apache |xTc| *XO* wrote:
Didnt flux wave cripple ships like this a long, long time ago?
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yes, if you flew an ICC missile dread full of flux waves.
and targeted frigates.
and were a member of [ESF].
and your name was Smokey.
or Peanut.
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OR your name was Feralwulf and you opened a WH into the middle of an enemy fleet with a SS with 11 Flux Waves 
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