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Scenario server balance issue |
Musashi Miyamoto
Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2010
Posts: 51
|  Posted: 2012-06-28 03:46
then wat about my Assasin ais then u didnt mention those.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-06-28 03:52
Quote:
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On 2012-06-28 03:46, Musashi Miyamoto wrote:
then wat about my Assasin ais then u didnt mention those.
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Well If I have an elite stocking me, I for one will never set foot in sen again. The last thing I need is a kaz coming after me the whole game. 
[ This Message was edited by: Brutality *XO2* on 2012-06-28 04:13 ]
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Musashi Miyamoto
Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2010
Posts: 51
| Posted: 2012-06-28 04:17
Pres loss from being killed by an assasin will b disabled though but u wont gain any by fighting it either.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-06-28 05:19
you got stuck in a VA-VA vs A-GA situation because only 4 players were on the server at the time. balancing is not very effective for small numbers like 4
increase that to 40 players - 10 VA, 10 1RA, 10 A, 5 FA, 5 GA. the worst odds for a team would probably be 30 players (1RA, VA, A) vs 10 players (FA, GA). with some crafty help, this kind of player distribution can be found.
I, for one, do not want to see 20-40 ai ships trying to even out any "uneven balance" due to a complete lack of vice admirals on 1 team and grand admirals on another team. rank-based balancing simply does not work..
if balancing using ai must be discussed, then it would be better for calculating player strength on basis of total sum prestige of each team (the way it is done right now). teams with less total prestige than the team with the most prestige should be compensated by giving 1-3 ai ships whose rank would reduce the difference.
dummy numbers...
ugto team, 2 GA, 1 A, 2 1RA, prestige range 175k-349k pres. 250k average
icc team, 1 GA, 1 FA, 2 VA, 1 2RA, prestige range 145k-289k pres. 210k average
difference - 40k pres
balancing, server spawns 1 combat dread and 1 heavy cruiser for icc. difference reduced to 25k pres, with 25k being 10% of 250k. so icc team is atleast 90% as competitive as ugto team.
again, i want to make it clear im not in favour of balancing by spawning ai ships for 1 faction. the balancing system should work well for 10+ players, and more often than not it balances players nicely without problems.
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Musashi Miyamoto
Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2010
Posts: 51
| Posted: 2012-06-28 06:33
Quote:
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On 2012-06-28 05:19, Raje wrote:
you got stuck in a VA-VA vs A-GA situation because only 4 players were on the server at the time. balancing is not very effective for small numbers like 4
increase that to 40 players - 10 VA, 10 1RA, 10 A, 5 FA, 5 GA. the worst odds for a team would probably be 30 players (1RA, VA, A) vs 10 players (FA, GA). with some crafty help, this kind of player distribution can be found.
I, for one, do not want to see 20-40 ai ships trying to even out any "uneven balance" due to a complete lack of vice admirals on 1 team and grand admirals on another team. rank-based balancing simply does not work..
if balancing using ai must be discussed, then it would be better for calculating player strength on basis of total sum prestige of each team (the way it is done right now). teams with less total prestige than the team with the most prestige should be compensated by giving 1-3 ai ships whose rank would reduce the difference.
dummy numbers...
ugto team, 2 GA, 1 A, 2 1RA, prestige range 175k-349k pres. 250k average
icc team, 1 GA, 1 FA, 2 VA, 1 2RA, prestige range 145k-289k pres. 210k average
difference - 40k pres
balancing, server spawns 1 combat dread and 1 heavy cruiser for icc. difference reduced to 25k pres, with 25k being 10% of 250k. so icc team is atleast 90% as competitive as ugto team.
again, i want to make it clear im not in favour of balancing by spawning ai ships for 1 faction. the balancing system should work well for 10+ players, and more often than not it balances players nicely without problems.
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uh uh no that doesnt work out too well; all teams have to b equally competitive
And since when do more than 40 ppl actually b online at all let alone on a single server
I'll put in a new equation so u can undesrtand it.
ICC = 2GA players & 1VA ai + UGTO = 1GA player & 1GA ai & 1 VA player
some1 at GA joins the game then this equation then becomes
ICC = 2GA players & 1VA ai + UGTO = 2GA players & 1VA player
The assasin ship then goes to the nearest jumpgate (friendly or not) and enters
Assasin ships that target a person on icc will show up as a friendly to both luth and ugto
3 new factions r added but only to the scen server
Rebel UGTO allied to icc and luth
Rebel luth allied to ugto and icc
Rebel icc allied to ugto and luth
these are ai only factions
Rebels (Assasins) basically fly the ships their own government uses ei Rebel UGTO uses ugto ships Rebel ICC uses icc ships and rebel luth uses luth ships.
Assasins give no pres and being destroyed by assasins doesnt cause pres loss
as all pres related things r disabled for assasin ships.
Assasin ships use the same hull designs as the government they fight against but not the same markings. making a texture for an already existing ship shouldnt be all that hard.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-06-28 07:16
Scenario is already rank balanced. Even if you're on the team with the lower ranks, there are creative ways to defeat higher ranks(interdictors!). Besides, as Kenny said, you can't spawn a big ship at the beginning.
As for the assassin idea, personally I think it's a waste of time.
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[ML]RogueAvengerTTV
Marshal
Joined: September 11, 2010
Posts: 300
From: England
| Posted: 2012-06-28 07:57
imo scenario should be removed takes players away from the main aspect of the game which is the MV also means that newbies come to the real game used to only fighting ai then complain about being ganked by players in bigger ships makes sense just to start in the MV learn everything you need to from there like how to build deal with bigger ships ect instead of being sugger coated in the scenario server as well as players coming to the mv in cruisers and dessies when they have no idea how to use them in player vs player combat
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-06-28 12:44
Quote:
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On 2012-06-28 04:17, Musashi Miyamoto wrote:
Pres loss from being killed by an assasin will b disabled though but u wont gain any by fighting it either.
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Read: This is just plain ass stupid.
I am to be punished for playing a game? THIS GAME? This DYING GAME?!?!?!?!
1. The scens are ranked. If I, a CM start off on a new scen, I can garaun-damnwell-tee you that I won't be getting any help any time soon, barring a CM joining the other faction(s). That is how it works NOW.
2. You, and nobody else, has ANY right WHATSOEVER to ASSUME you can build a sy or just simply engineer without being attacked. Those ships give a target lock for a reason.
3. As somebody who is virtually ALWAYS alone when I play in scens, I can see you dont understand that which you desire to change.
Good DAY sir!
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-06-28 12:47
Quote:
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On 2012-06-28 06:33, Musashi Miyamoto wrote:
uh uh no that doesnt work out too well; all teams have to b equally competitive
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All teams are created equal, and it is the DS Governments job to make sure that those who are more equal are created less so.
2+2=5
Four legs good. Two legs bad.
God, save me from DarkSocialistSpace!
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-28 13:53
Scen is fine as it is, you just have to learn how to deal with things as they come up. I'm usually by myself on a team as well if I join a new match as it's starting and usually do pretty well.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2012-06-28 15:03
Quote:
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On 2012-06-28 04:17, Musashi Miyamoto wrote:
Pres loss from being killed by an assasin will b disabled though but u wont gain any by fighting it either.
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Great so you have an elite AI with overpowered specifications bee-lining you since the moment you spawn. Also if you do manage to drive it off good job, your reward is that it will respawn and come after you again. By the way you better also look out for the 10 enemy frigates coming after you while the enemy has 2 engis working on a SY. By the way you're also alone. All in the name of balance. Amirite?
Balance should work on a combination of player and rank numbers, like how it is now.
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Namra
Admiral
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2012-06-28 17:48
It's extremely relevant that OP created this thread out of sheer frustration from being denied the ability to AFK-build his way up to a SY in a brand new scenario.
To shed a little more light on the incident, there were four players present in the scenario. Myself and another player were on K'Luth, OP and another Vice Admiral were on UGTO. Our strategy was to have my teammate build up a Terran planet while I flew around and harassed the enemies.
They chose to both get in Engineers and try and build despite my harassing. OP resorted to smack talk in /yell while spamming platforms, despite his planet falling far behind in terms of progress.
We got our SY first, and due to it being incredibly well-funded due to lack of harassment on their end, I was able to purchase a Parasite and continue harassing their engineers.
TL;DR Stop complaining. You did not die (over and over) due to rank, you died due to your mindset of everyone hugging and building together.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-06-28 19:43
setting up a shipyard able to spawn stations takes 30-60 minutes of undisturbed build-time ... not including the resources
with ai-engies around you can usually build 2 planets at the same time... one for sy, one as a pure minijg or inf-planet
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-28 20:09
There's a few people who have gotten it down to a science and can have a SY along with 2-3 mining planets up and running around the same time, provided it's a small cluster and the planets are nearby eachother. It's entirely possible to win a scenerio match with 1 person vs. 2 or 3 others as long as the other team are either inexperienced or pointedly avoid ganking them while they try to build.
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JakV
2nd Rear Admiral
Joined: February 11, 2011
Posts: 11
| Posted: 2012-06-28 22:35
Okay, so, if I were an admin, I would lock this thread, and if I were Doran, I think I would lol... Don't rage about scenario not being PvE... For goodness sakes, it's purpose is PvP. And also, last time I heard about someone raging, it was OP about an infantry planet built on a flag planet getting bombed to smithers...
[ This Message was edited by: JakV on 2012-06-28 23:07 ]
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