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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
|  Posted: 2012-05-29 21:48
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On 2012-05-29 20:49, Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CO* wrote:
how about less energy drain for kluth. was in beta and i was in a hive and redbandit in a siphon going against a battle station and ran out if energy pretty fast however the uggie battle station still had plenty of power but was running out of ammo. just a thought.
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You do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is why your energy usage is so high (and in some cases, particular weapons are actually the most energy effecient per damage unit done).
K'Luth will have their missiles nerfed so that the further away they are used, the less damage they do.
I've never been happy with the close range faction having viable long range ships that are better in most cases than the other two factions. So to combat this, we're going to allow you to use them, but they won't be as effective at long range (this should encourage you to use the missile ships at a closer range that the faction was designed around).
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-05-29 21:51
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On 2012-05-29 18:47, Critus wrote:
Why icc gets a lame sabot rocket? and ugto get a new cooler ion weapon (the only "good" thing icc has?. Icc should have a wep similar to the qst something probably lower range than the standar icc wep but with heavyer punch ideal for assault ships... in my opinion icc always gets the most common and less atractive modification?. This new release is going to fix the usefulness of the pulse shiled and the aux shield (too low hp)?. Ty.
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UGTO and ICC have both mastered usage of ions (in lore at least), which is why they use Ion Tracker missiles, Ion Engines. It just so happens that ICC have an Ion Cannon, it doesn't mean that 'Ion damage' is their flavour of choice.
Irregardless of lore, why are sabots not cool, but ions are? That doesn't make sense. That's like me saying apples are cooler than oranges, but giving no reasons.
Not to mention you're also asking us to give the defence-heavy faction a heavier hitting weapon than UGTO, which also doesn't make much sense.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-05-30 02:56
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On 2012-05-29 21:48, Pantheon wrote:
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On 2012-05-29 20:49, Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CO* wrote:
how about less energy drain for kluth. was in beta and i was in a hive and redbandit in a siphon going against a battle station and ran out if energy pretty fast however the uggie battle station still had plenty of power but was running out of ammo. just a thought.
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You do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is why your energy usage is so high (and in some cases, particular weapons are actually the most energy effecient per damage unit done).
K'Luth will have their missiles nerfed so that the further away they are used, the less damage they do.
I've never been happy with the close range faction having viable long range ships that are better in most cases than the other two factions. So to combat this, we're going to allow you to use them, but they won't be as effective at long range (this should encourage you to use the missile ships at a closer range that the faction was designed around).
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something that bugged me:
luth-ships might be able to deal insane amounts of damage up close in a very short time (siphon/mandy) but for stock vs stock- dreads, most of the time i have to retreat, because my batterys aint enough to finish a single dread
when ure hunting in a group, others can finish off you target, but being alone it süx
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-05-30 07:43
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On 2012-05-30 02:56, NoBoDx wrote:
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On 2012-05-29 21:48, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-29 20:49, Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CO* wrote:
how about less energy drain for kluth. was in beta and i was in a hive and redbandit in a siphon going against a battle station and ran out if energy pretty fast however the uggie battle station still had plenty of power but was running out of ammo. just a thought.
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You do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is why your energy usage is so high (and in some cases, particular weapons are actually the most energy effecient per damage unit done).
K'Luth will have their missiles nerfed so that the further away they are used, the less damage they do.
I've never been happy with the close range faction having viable long range ships that are better in most cases than the other two factions. So to combat this, we're going to allow you to use them, but they won't be as effective at long range (this should encourage you to use the missile ships at a closer range that the faction was designed around).
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something that bugged me:
luth-ships might be able to deal insane amounts of damage up close in a very short time (siphon/mandy) but for stock vs stock- dreads, most of the time i have to retreat, because my batterys aint enough to finish a single dread
when ure hunting in a group, others can finish off you target, but being alone it süx
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What makes you think you're supposed to be able to kill a ship in one run  ?
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2012-05-30 08:27
Quote:
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On 2012-05-29 21:48, Pantheon wrote:
You do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is why your energy usage is so high (and in some cases, particular weapons are actually the most energy effecient per damage unit done).
K'Luth will have their missiles nerfed so that the further away they are used, the less damage they do.
I've never been happy with the close range faction having viable long range ships that are better in most cases than the other two factions. So to combat this, we're going to allow you to use them, but they won't be as effective at long range (this should encourage you to use the missile ships at a closer range that the faction was designed around).
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gonna miss current kluth gangi.. but it makes sense. so this means arming range for kluth missiles will be reduced too?
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-06-01 03:52
[quote]
On 2012-05-30 07:43, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-30 02:56, NoBoDx wrote:
Quote:
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something that bugged me:
luth-ships might be able to deal insane amounts of damage up close in a very short time (siphon/mandy) but for stock vs stock- dreads, most of the time i have to retreat, because my batterys aint enough to finish a single dread
when ure hunting in a group, others can finish off you target, but being alone it süx
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What makes you think you're supposed to be able to kill a ship in one run ?
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cause luth-ships are almost useless when theyve fired all weapons (exept for being a giant bullet-magnet;)) and have to wait ages before they can pew pew all of their weapons again
imho the luth need either more damage, or a (little) better energy regeneration
as a hit'n run faction, they should be able to take out a single opponent and have to retreat to recharge but currently a single luth is able to punch through the armor of a single target-> is forecd to retreat, and when the energy/ jumpdrives have recharged, so does the enemys hull/armor
edit: on luth-cruisers its even worse
[ This Message was edited by: NoBoDx on 2012-06-01 03:53 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-06-01 10:15
Quote:
| On 2012-05-29 21:48, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
| On 2012-05-29 20:49, Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CO* wrote:
how about less energy drain for kluth. was in beta and i was in a hive and redbandit in a siphon going against a battle station and ran out if energy pretty fast however the uggie battle station still had plenty of power but was running out of ammo. |
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You do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is why your energy usage is so high (and in some cases, particular weapons are actually the most energy effecient per damage unit done).
K'Luth will have their missiles nerfed so that the further away they are used, the less damage they do. |
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The problem name is "Assault Disruptor" - 2nd beam damage and 1st energy cost. It's not really efficient for Siphon to get half of its energy source from ELF. Would be nice to exchange 1 torp for 1 aux gen.
Currently, AD deals 3980+(3980*level) damage for 3 seconds. I suggest AD deals 4400+(4000*level) damage for 4 seconds. This way, Siphon manages its energy better because it won't drain ridiculously energy in a short time, but still deal good and less damge than max HCL. Besides, damage per second is less so it grants smaller ship a higher chance to survive.
About Ganglia, I think it does not make sense that make it a missle ship and force it to fire close. What's the point to launch missle when you're inside its core weapon range? Luth should not have nice missle, I agree. Hence, giving it negative signature and unlimited ammo missle seems collapse the plan. I suggest that Luth missle should have positive missle and limited ammo.
Another reason that people love Ganglia is because it's much more useful than MD. It has heavy cannon - great to combat when the target approaches. So Ganglia is good at both long and medium range. To balance the fact, we can exchange those 5 heavy cannon for 5 AM mines. Thus, ganglia can defend itself from point jump by laying mines although it can't attack someone who enters its weak range. Sounds fair.
Talk about the new weapon. I can see the new torp manner is faster, longer, weaker. Basically, it suits destroyer and smaller classes to attack big ship. Why is it not really good for big ship to kill small ship? In beta, I realize that to hit small ship, the torp does not really need tracking ability; what it needs ought to be cresent-shape. The problem to hit small ship mainly is its small size, not its fast speed. If you use a ping-pong racket to hit a ball, you have a higher miss percentage than you hit it with a tennis racket. So what weapon DS lacks should be various shape of bullt. We need "wave" (the following wave is bigger), multiple directions (shot 3 bullets, each flies in one direction: straightforward, 45 left degree, 45 right degree), or lightning (the ending point is fixed but the middle road is random), or tornado (when you turns the ship, it drags the tornado). That's require huge work and graphics, I think. So nevermind.
I just recognize that we can learn when beta will come online by looking at the upcoming events. The beta testing shall occur on 08/6/2012.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-01 11:27
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On 2012-06-01 03:52, NoBoDx wrote:
cause luth-ships are almost useless when theyve fired all weapons (exept for being a giant bullet-magnet;)) and have to wait ages before they can pew pew all of their weapons again
imho the luth need either more damage, or a (little) better energy regeneration
as a hit'n run faction, they should be able to take out a single opponent and have to retreat to recharge but currently a single luth is able to punch through the armor of a single target-> is forecd to retreat, and when the energy/ jumpdrives have recharged, so does the enemys hull/armor
edit: on luth-cruisers its even worse
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And if luth ships could kill other ships without running out of energy? Instead of several people focusing on one target at a time to kill it, you have everyone taking their own target and killing it. That doesn't work, luth are pack hunters like Wolves not solitary like a Shark. Cloak is already enough of an easy button, anything more and it's going to turn luth into what UGTO was before the depot changes.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-06-01 11:28
Quote:
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On 2012-06-01 11:27, Talien wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-06-01 03:52, NoBoDx wrote:
cause luth-ships are almost useless when theyve fired all weapons (exept for being a giant bullet-magnet;)) and have to wait ages before they can pew pew all of their weapons again
imho the luth need either more damage, or a (little) better energy regeneration
as a hit'n run faction, they should be able to take out a single opponent and have to retreat to recharge but currently a single luth is able to punch through the armor of a single target-> is forecd to retreat, and when the energy/ jumpdrives have recharged, so does the enemys hull/armor
edit: on luth-cruisers its even worse
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And if luth ships could kill other ships without running out of energy? Instead of several people focusing on one target at a time to kill it, you have everyone taking their own target and killing it. That doesn't work, luth are pack hunters like Wolves not solitary like a Shark. Cloak is already enough of an easy button, anything more and it's going to turn luth into what UGTO was before the depot changes.
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^ This. So much.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-06-01 13:52
Anyway, got to test the SABOT rockets(ICC Assault Cruiser) vs a UGTO torp cruiser w/ Ion Torps for a couple minutes before the server crashed.
The rockets are nice, however are hampered by highly limited ammo. Ammo should be upped to around the Fusion Torpedo range.
The Ion Torpedoes' tracking needs to be toned down a bit IMHO, they track a bit too well. Maybe a 20-40% turning speed nerf, I'm kinda worried about EAD's coming in and nuking small ships at medium range, whereas you were able to dodge Proton Torpedoes easily before.
Will test more when beta comes back.
[ This Message was edited by: Persistance on 2012-06-01 13:53 ]
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-06-01 14:22
After a little more testing, never mind what I said about the IT's. They might actually need a buff 
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-06-01 14:30
we all have a more accurate torp now.
Ugto tracks
kluth tri shot.
Icc super scatter shot.
Lols. Ugto ead fits ion torps, ablative armor, and ecl and becomes far more deadly at medium range vs icc, who mostly field small ships.
Cant wait to get in there and test 1v1 battles. I think overall this patch looks verry interesting. Perhaps these changes will make ugto more bold.
Im a little sad ugto has anti fighter weapons... But then again i never used fighters anyway.
everything needs tweeks im sure...
Icc pulse beam is a non offensive weapon. When we choose to take it, we are trading offense for defense. They do next to no damage.
The ecl seems to pack a small punch though... It is offset by reload time. Energy use of them seems to not be an issue... But i was in a carrier dread so...
No one is talking about the defense changes though.
Can we get some insight as to what to expect there?
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
| Posted: 2012-06-01 16:28
Quote:
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On 2012-05-29 21:48, Pantheon wrote:
So to combat this, we're going to allow you to use them, but they won't be as effective at long range (this should encourage you to use the missile ships at a closer range that the faction was designed around).
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WOAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plz extend the Minimum arming distance of the Shrouds If i knew a way to video it i would
but when u have 1 ECCM and then 2 more within 100 gu of me.
then the gang fires a full salvo of Shrouds i see them coming but they are so quick to get to u at 120 gu or so ur ECCM cant pick it up and ur PD sure as hell cant pick it up I have personally seen this and like i said if i knew how i'd video it.
this needs to be fixed very very very bad giving that particular missile a tiny arming distance with the punch that it leaves is so extremely OP especially considering he can fire laser and cannons and still have energy for a few more missile volleys
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Critus
Chief Marshal
Joined: December 28, 2007
Posts: 52
From: kpo8914
| Posted: 2012-06-01 17:01
Whats the deal with sabot, they have more dmg? range? the sabot i remember was not worth the ress it cost to refit... For example, as a AD ship what advantages i have with sabot rather than whats probably the best torpedo with splash dmg in icc wep system?
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Rain of Fire [O-XII]
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 18, 2011
Posts: 71
From: South of Klaus, 14,000 gu from Insanity and 3,000 from Desperation.
| Posted: 2012-06-01 17:32
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On 2012-06-01 17:01, Critus wrote:
Whats the deal with sabot, they have more dmg? range? the sabot i remember was not worth the ress it cost to refit... For example, as a AD ship what advantages i have with sabot rather than whats probably the best torpedo with splash dmg in icc wep system?
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Guidance. You get guided munitions to deal with smaller ships, much like the MI Longhead gets guided torps to deal with the likes of you
As I learned about SABOTs after beta went down, I have to ask. Do they fire 1 per salvo like standard torp mounts? or do they fire spreads of 4-5 rockets? Because I can deal with the lack of ammo if they fire multiple rockets per salvo per mount.
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On 2012-11-06 20:23, Tael wrote:
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