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is it even possible to balance cloak? |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2012-04-11 05:01
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On 2012-04-11 04:41, Fluttershy wrote:
I'm just watching the battles from the kluth side and see a lot of pissed off newbies.
Cloak is only fun for the person who has it, for everyone else it's felt as being OP, especially if they aren't capable of using a ship that can lay down some serious hurt in a short time span, such as an EAD.
Anyhow, the main problem I'm seeing is that small ships cant really get in on the action vs kluth, because they're only available as a target for such a short window.
You can make like 10 times as much prestige in the same time period shooting at a human dread because you can keep shooting it, and it cannot cloak.
Kluth... they uncloak, and you have no choice but to e-jump or die, you cant whittle them down like you would with any other dread.
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I played up to VA as UGTO. Meaning that I flew up to Uggie dessies before I fleeted with PB. Never whined abt not being able to get any action. And I'm here now at Marshal aren't I? Similarly, all those GAs went through the same grind.
What makes you so special to get an easier ride up?
Pres loss was higher many versions back. The older players had a longer grind to get to where they
are.
Work yr way up and earn the rank.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-04-11 05:03 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-04-11 06:21
Dude, what are you talking about? This isn't about ME.
I've learned to deal with it, but it all seems like lousy game play mechanics that you all just grew used to.
I really wish there was a way I could set up a DS server with a mod of some sort... try out ideas you'd all think are crazy, and see how it works out.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-04-11 06:21 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-04-11 06:48
with all due respect Flutter, I don't really think you know a thing about either K'Luth's cloak or K'Luth's damage.
The diminisghing returns on power vs ship size on K'Luth now is the absolute worse it has ever been. The bigger the ship, the weaker it is vs equal class now.
Humans have many ways to defeat cloak, cloak has many ways to get broken now, and on top of that, UGTO gets armor that effectively nullifies K'Luth damage. WTF more can you ask for? Oh, skill maybe?
Yeah, many current "veterans" of high rank got those stars during the higher pres gains of various types over the last few years. Kenny is just one of em. Just having ai in the game gives people a better pres opportunity than we had in the old days.
The game keeps getting more point and click and dumbed down for the Game Shark generation to keep up with us old Pongers. Its sad to see how weak the young are nowdays.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-04-11 09:54
That's what I miss so much about ping. It gave you a chance to figure out where the enemy was at and destroy them. Now its a lot harder to kill them because eccm barely drains energy and doesn't effect cloak time, and without ping I can blind fire 1-2 alphas before I lose them. Seems like luth can pretty much strike at will since there seems to be no drawbacks to luth. I could easily be wrong here this is just my simply my point of view.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-04-11 10:12
position to strike somewhat easier. escape after strike in dictor field vs UGTO and the V key, not very high, less so vs more than 1. The problem I have is that I get into position to strike, uncloak (sometimes taking up to 4 seconds or more) and then hit them with a creampuff alpha that peals jack schnitt off the armor, sucks up a 1/4 of your energy, then leaves you standing there with a piece of crap AHR, armor that UGTO crushes to hull in 1 alpha, and flux beams and the V key that takes out your gadgets. Have energy like a good boy? Tough. Have armor on three sides. Yeah wish that would help you. What you need is cloak and it aint happening for up to five minutes because your gadget got wiped to 5%.
Have fun 
That's what I am talking about.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-04-11 11:10
yea guess that makes sense against ugto. Ganglia should tear up the EAD at range though right?
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Acetheanimal(Angel of Distruction)
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 22, 2008
Posts: 85
| Posted: 2012-04-11 11:16
okay this is so stupid. get ride of kluth cloak are you nuts or not even paying attention to the game. dude first off this is like the third thread your posted that is QQ. Thats the only thing you seem good at. Secound off you cannot do away with kluth Cloak you do so you have to come up with something else that gives them an advantage. Then you have to redo the armor so its not papper thin. then redow all the layouts weapons torps ect ect ect. That would requir a lot of man hours and man power. My advice to you is stop QQ before you make others mad like your starting to do and diffently before you make the staff upset with you.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2012-04-11 11:51
Quote:
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On 2012-04-11 06:21, Fluttershy wrote:
Dude, what are you talking about? This isn't about ME.
I've learned to deal with it, but it all seems like lousy game play mechanics that you all just grew used to.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-04-11 06:21 ]
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It sure does sound a lot about you and your own viewpoints.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-04-11 12:07
i rest my case
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-04-11 14:22
look, im just saying, cloak has always been a hard feature to balance if only one side has it, and any attempt to balance it leads to QQ from BOTH sides.
This is what I have learned from other games with the same deal.
The ones with the cloak complain about having their stuff getting ruined by UGTO flux and EMP, thin armor, not doing enough damage, etc.
The ones without the cloak complain about not being able to hunt them down or detect their proximity by some means to drive them off.
With the way kluth ships are, it encourages one to only go for small and/or weak targets, and it is mandatory to go in packs of 2 or 3 to take on vessels of the same class.
It's really impossible to play kluth effectively without being "cowardly" and having "no honor" as I have heard many times -_-
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-04-11 14:25 ]
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Valiant Wolf
Admiral
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 15
| Posted: 2012-04-11 15:28
There's no reason to be all eletist because rising through the ranks was supposedly harder earlier in the game's history. I must say, Fluttershy has got a point here. I do think though, that the imbalance is inevitable.
I was going to write a ton, but to keep it simple, here is my proposition:
Instead of changing cloak, create a new EW gadget soley for pinging:
- One ping per usage
- Does not alter signature in any way
- Allows the user (and only the user) to briefly see the position of all ships, regardless of signature
- Causes all ships within the AOE to be able to see the user, regardless of signature -or- Renders all other EW useless while installed on the ship
- Very high energy usage
- Very long cooldown
- Ammunition based (At most three activations)
- Falloff and range similar to that of standard EW; as distance increases, the shorter the ping lasts
This is just a suggestion, and is probably in the wrong thread for it, but I feel it's appropriate in this case.
Also, my first post in all my time being here. That's not to say I don't lurk...
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-04-11 16:18
Everyone has their own opinion on balance. I feel this is more of a whine thread than actually contributing any considerable information (appart from some of those replying), in all honesty.
Whilst I would normally leave a thread like this alone until it plundered into the depths, I don't think this back and forth and almost turning into petty insults is going to do anything.
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