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Forum Index » » Tactics & New Players » » Construction 101: Engineer Ramblings
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 Author Construction 101: Engineer Ramblings
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2012-02-24 07:52   
Quote:

On 2012-02-24 07:26, chlorophyll wrote:
Quick reminder for new players:
  • Never build offense base tier II.




And people wonder why planets are so easy to capture...
_________________


Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2012-02-24 10:55   
I've found Offence Base IIs are superior to Offence Base Is, in that they do tear to shreds anything that looks at the planet wrongly. Two Offence Base Is additionally consume more resources than One Offence Base II, so it doesn't seem optimal to me to avoid using Offence Base IIs, unless your argument is "technology", in which case I recommend 90~100 technology on planets sustaining offence bases.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
Posted: 2012-02-24 12:15   
Quote:

On 2012-02-24 07:52, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:

On 2012-02-24 07:26, chlorophyll wrote:
Quick reminder for new players:
  • Never build offense base tier II.




And people wonder why planets are so easy to capture...



1 bombing run and all Off II bases are inactive, Off II base planets are easy to capture if bombed, ai will have their troubles yes, so just vs invasion armadas without bombers, Off II bases are good imo.

Generaly the more hightech a planet the easier it is to make em collapse, kind of paradox: The most stable planets were the old mass depot planets.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
Posted: 2012-02-24 12:42   
Quote:

On 2012-02-24 10:55, Gesellschaft wrote:
I've found Offence Base IIs are superior to Offence Base Is, in that they do tear to shreds anything that looks at the planet wrongly. Two Offence Base Is additionally consume more resources than One Offence Base II, so it doesn't seem optimal to me to avoid using Offence Base IIs, unless your argument is "technology", in which case I recommend 90~100 technology on planets sustaining offence bases.



Even with 90 tech they still get taken out in a single bombing run by a Frigate. The only time base 2s are worth using is if they're on a shielded ICC planet that's guaranteed to be defended by a player fleet, and how often does that happen?

The ideal solution would be for tech to not take a dive into the crapper and flush itself as soon as the first population unit dies, and require the actual labs to be destroyed or taken offline by power/worker shortage.
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Adapt or die.

Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2012-02-24 14:43   
But Offence Base IIs destroy a Frigate outright if it gets within bombing range.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
Posted: 2012-02-24 16:48   
Maybe if the planet is packed full of them to the exclusion of all else, but then the pop is going to be so high it'll be frequently plagued. Revolt because of plague, or capped by a bunch of people.....pick your poison.
_________________
Adapt or die.

DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2012-02-25 12:01   
Quote:
On 2012-02-24 07:52, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-02-24 07:26, chlorophyll wrote:
Quick reminder for new players:
  • Never build offense base tier II.


And people wonder why planets are so easy to capture...


What is more important to capture a planet: skill or luckiness?
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-02-25 14:38 ]
_________________


Princess Celestia
Marshal

Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 165
From: The Crystal Empire.
Posted: 2012-02-26 09:12   
not true a player frig that knows how to bomb at max speed can easly get all 12 bombs on to the ground and come out laughing.

there are PSM and they work at disableing things like that.
and your never in planet def range.
[ This Message was edited by: Brony on 2012-02-26 09:12 ]
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
Posted: 2012-02-26 10:43   
The way an offense II base works is by keeping any and every thing away from it. They admittedly have more damage than a planet full of offense I bases, that is a given. I shall address how each of the three factions deals with the issue.

K'luth: Well maybe not the easiest thing to do... They have the weakest armor, but they also have cloak and a very high natural regen rate. This means that you can jump to the planet, out of range of the defense bases, cloak, then close in. When you are in close proximity to the planet you can decloak and release a storm of bombs onto the planet surface and cloak when necessary to keep yourself alive. Do this once or twice with the Probisis and the bases are down. The only exception to this rule is shielded planets, and the way to tackle those is to use cloak to drop troops on the surface until it falls.

ICC: From the easiest to the hardest, the ICC don't even need to get in range of the planet defenses to disable it. Just swap out the bombs on the bomber frigate or destroyer for PSMs and target an important building like a cortex nexus. One or two bombing runs should do. If the planet is shielded just do multiple attack runs from out of range to easily circumvent the planet's defenses while taking down the shield and dropping pop; this is better done with a siege dread, but in reality it will take only 3-4 more attack runs at the most if you do not use one.

UGTO: Brute force wins here. The UGTO either infantry rush the planet or pull a bomber frigate and rush up to the planet, deal some damage, then run away: repeat until the tech drops. This works because of the UGTO's superior armor (as compared to the K'luth) so that you can probably get off all of your bombs without dying, then go to get repairs and rearmed by a supply or a planet. This is especially easier with a repair ship waiting out of range of the planet. Alternatively, you could just go back to a SY and swap out for a new frigate, though a certain sense of fair play is lost there.

My point is that an (undefended) offense II planet is absurdly easy to disable with even a bomber frigate. Contrast this to a offense I planet: it does not do as much damage, but if it is built right the bases will also last much longer and thus for every planet built it will slow down your enemies that much more.

If you are actively defending the planet at all times than of course an offense II planet is better, but how often does that honestly happen?

[ This Message was edited by: Incinarator |SoT| on 2012-02-26 10:45 ]
_________________
I be rebuilding your planets!

Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
Posted: 2012-02-26 14:58   
Some people are forgetting cloud bombing... you can get 6 salvoes on the ground at the same time, don't have to take fire for too long and hitting the tech labs like this seriously hurts the planet.
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Names I used: Da Bes Loser, Perseverance, Loyalty.

Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2012-02-26 21:50   
Quote:

On 2012-02-26 14:58, Loyalty *TO* wrote:
Some people are forgetting cloud bombing... you can get 6 salvoes on the ground at the same time, don't have to take fire for too long and hitting the tech labs like this seriously hurts the planet.




Who cloud bombs anymore when there're no deathstar beams from the planet to take your bombs... and you .... out. You just sit 300 gus from the planet with a suppie in tow and take out structures with relative ease.

Just remember to pile on the ECM to increase your bomb hit percentage, and to remain as invisible as possible.


_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....


Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
Posted: 2012-02-26 23:01   
Quote:

On 2012-02-26 21:50, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:

Who cloud bombs anymore when there're no deathstar beams from the planet to take your bombs... and you .... out.



There's still players trying to take you out...

It seems a thread on engineering has gone into bombing.
_________________

Names I used: Da Bes Loser, Perseverance, Loyalty.

Monkey (USF Exodus)
Fleet Admiral
Lethal Assault Group

Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 11
From: UK
Posted: 2012-02-27 03:47   
Most of the mines on front line planets on UGTO held planets are due to people swapping sides and scrapping defenses/barracks in favor of domes and tier 1 mines.

Defense bases (of any tier and kind) are fairly useless when holding off anything more than a light frigate attack (ive yet to trie it, but im pretty sure a bomber frigate can survive a moderately defended planet, the cruiser certainly can).

I bombed 7 planets the other day, most of them with defense counts over 10, and never suffered any problems in killing the infs, with my only real problems occuring when an AI cruiser or two showed up and ruined my capture.

There is a deeper problem than just the bad construction of planets in that planets do not NEED to be reconstructed... ever. With almost no one using MiRVs to destory more than the odd building, but rather in the role of neutron bombs (which are currently totally and utterly useless, 1 round of MiRVs kills 4-5 infs in a stack, it takes 2-3 rounds of neuts to acheieve the same destruction). There is never any need to totally destroy the planet, and hence most of the building (and hence rebuilding) is replacing the odd building, or undoing some sabotage.

Incarnath in R33 is great example of a terribly built planet, which hasn't been corrected because one would lose too much prestige scrapping the badly chosen structures in favour of better ones.
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