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too much DPS |
Saphirako
Fleet Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: December 22, 2009
Posts: 55
From: Deep in the void of space...
|  Posted: 2011-11-30 18:04
Sorry this is a bit late but I do have to agree on this matter. The DPS last time I logged was a bit high. Not to be rude or to complain but I think that especially the beam and torpedo damage is too high. Sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-11-30 18:18
Would I be correct in guessing the DPS issue is the reason for all armor/shields being changed to Dreadnought level in beta? That would go a long way to fixing that issue if the HP values for each level were tweaked to bring them up without the huge mass/energy use increase. It's to the point now where even Destroyers can sometimes be one shotted by an alpha from a damage enhanced EAD or Siphon, where before it was possible to survive one Dreadnought beam alpha with a Frigate. Hell, now there's even the danger of instant death by nonrendered Harpex/Shroud missiles for anything Destroyer size and smaller.
I can see Scouts getting one shotted by beam alphas, maybe Frigates too since there's no pres loss for losing one, but when Cruisers are getting instahulled and Destroyers risk death from a single alpha it's a good sign that armor/shield HP needs tweaking. Scouts and Frigates should get less of a boost as I can think of a few people who would be invincible in Scouts with Dreadnought HP shields/armor short of being effectively point jumped by an Interdictor and a couple beam ships which is unlikely to happen.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-11-30 18:37
We generally aggro on the dev team, but it's not as simple as dropping numbers by a %, and we have other things being worked on at the moment.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2011-11-30 18:38 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-11-30 19:31
to answer your question on where did all the people go...
1. 1.670 release saw ICC reborn with huge numbers of players. UGTO could not compete. (i dont know why they could not compete, i was not there)
2. Devs release a hot fix that far and away makes UGTO OP. 25% (or was it 20%) more armor HP, +10% to all ugto weapons damage, -10% to all ICC weapons damage.
3. ICC rages (understandably).
4. Being met with hostile opposistion from the dev team, even to the point of name calling, most ICC logg off for good.
5. Dev team works to ballance UGTO Vs ICC and do an outstanding job. they made 3 (known) debuffs to ugto armor HP, and increased ICC torpedo and railgun damage to where it was. (sadly making gauss obsolite)
6. ICC is tarnished with stigmata from those who saw what happen after 670 came out. ICC is generaly thought of as the qq faction, the weak faction, the impossible to play faction.
7. People's perception of ICC dispite all devs have done to fix the issue drive new players from ICC.
8. All ICC players are viewed as QQ cry babies and most of their comments are met with hostility. Thus even when ICC players work to restore the image of their faction, it is often unheard, or misunderstood.
9. UGTO and K'luth loose an entire faction worth of enemies, thus making the MV feel a bit mor empty. UGTO and K'luth players start to leave.
just my perception on what happen. And yes, the DPS thing makes the game move alot faster. Im a cruiser pilot though, so i hardly even notice the difference. Sometimes it seems though, that pre 670 i did more damage in small ships than i do now...
the one dred i do fly is the AD, and i can tell you it does nothing of its pre 670 dps.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance{CM7} on 2011-11-30 19:34 ]
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Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 184
From: home planet: Exathra
| Posted: 2011-11-30 21:00
+1, i see whay you all have posted and whole-heartedly agree, as to why player numbers are shrinking, i have no answer, BUT i may have a partial solution as follows: just combine icc with ugto and create a faction called {humans}besides it'll give ppl a larger selection of ships to choose from, as was shown when rsm came over to icc they have the numbers of active players to keep the human factions alive.
in closing i just want to say to the dev team: " please don't be hostile to constructive critism (looks hard at panth) , otherwise keep up the good work, i love this game and would REALLY hate to see it die from player apathy just like i'd hate to see ICC die from player apathy...
just my 5 creds worth
PEACE !
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2011-11-30 21:43
I just wanted to add something:
Sometimes you get hit by invisible Kluth ai, you get hulled but you cant HEAR it or see any impact, scanner off or on, no matter, ping does not show anything. Often a Kluth Dread apears later as if their shots made a travel in time or what!? If you dont watch at your hull/armor this can be devestating.
Also i had the wrong engines on my AD (on default?),making me oom fast, these 2 things added up on this DPS issue SO MAYBE I HAVE GONE OVER THE TOP with my complain.
But since many people agree it still seems to be a little problem.
Today was a good day in the MV, may we just hope that RSM dont come back in full force 
No EAD pawned me, i am a little more confident.^^
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2011-11-30 22:37
Quote:
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On 2011-11-30 21:43, Fatal Perihelion wrote:
I just wanted to add something:
Sometimes you get hit by invisible Kluth ai, you get hulled but you cant HEAR it or see any impact, scanner off or on, no matter, ping does not show anything. Often a Kluth Dread apears later as if their shots made a travel in time or what!? If you dont watch at your hull/armor this can be devestating.
Also i had the wrong engines on my AD (on default?),making me oom fast, these 2 things added up on this DPS issue SO MAYBE I HAVE GONE OVER THE TOP with my complain.
But since many people agree it still seems to be a little problem.
Today was a good day in the MV, may we just hope that RSM dont come back in full force
No EAD pawned me, i am a little more confident.^^
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I've just learned to jump out of a dread and into a cruiser when the def stacked EAD's show up. Then you can slowly whittle them down from range and they can't touch you unless they put in a ton of effort 
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-11-30 22:39
Quote:
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On 2011-11-30 21:00, Mack Bolan(GA)(WildCards_58th)®© wrote:
+1, i see whay you all have posted and whole-heartedly agree, as to why player numbers are shrinking, i have no answer, BUT i may have a partial solution as follows: just combine icc with ugto and create a faction called {humans}besides it'll give ppl a larger selection of ships to choose from, as was shown when rsm came over to icc they have the numbers of active players to keep the human factions alive.
in closing i just want to say to the dev team: " please don't be hostile to constructive critism (looks hard at panth) , otherwise keep up the good work, i love this game and would REALLY hate to see it die from player apathy just like i'd hate to see ICC die from player apathy...
just my 5 creds worth
PEACE !
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Rebel scums and Corporate dirtbags just can't hold hands.
Besides, DS was built upon a 3-faction rivalry. We'd have to make MI a playable faction if the IQQ and Uggies got into bed with each other.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-11-30 23:33
Pirates.
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Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
| Posted: 2011-11-30 23:37
Quote:
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On 2011-11-30 23:33, Talien wrote:
Pirates.
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wasn't there already a post on that? Some people didn't like them being a mish-mash of UGTO and ICC stuff when a pirate faction would be like that. They would use whatever they can get their hands on.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-11-30 23:42
Yeah, that's why I mentioned it.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-12-01 01:30
Pirates would be weaker then either faction and at the same time have no real "pirating" abilities.
I'm sorry to say that unless a lot of work is done into the faction (to somehow give it a gimmick that makes it a real faction, to somehow give it a large number of ships and new models, to somehow make a , storyline wise, non-faction sized faction a faction), it has no chance of ever attaining faction status.
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2011-12-01 04:43
Quote:
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On 2011-11-30 08:07, Fatal Perihelion wrote:
Guess i am a little late and you were talking about this a lot already, but i want to know what you think:
There is to much DamagePerSecond now in this game.
On the paper it looks fine:
Battles are faster, there is more action, engage with care and only in groups and with a plan and the right set up.
Dont fool around.
But the results i see ingame are basicly that the game is just simplified!
I can only see this from my limited perspective of IQQ.. erm ICC:
There is no more room for energy management, meaning shield rotation, def mode, there is no real strategy or weapon of choice regarding what enemy to deal with at the moment.
Shields are gone anyway.
No short-jump away with a ranged ship and open fire again, cause your already hulled and better run run run.
No time to dodge or outmaneuver the enemy.
No more "hero" fights like jump in and escape after exchanging some alphas.
Only Kamikaze acts or wait patiently for HOURS!, like a spider, to hit someone who was less patiently.
The Kluth AI piercer... well we will get rid of it thank you!
Sure: This has also something to do with numbers, if there are just 1 or 2 alys around, you will be a target soon, its less forgiving.
I tried for several days now to do something right, thought ok maybe you just got to get used to it and adept.
But i see no way except grabbing a small ship and be an anoying fly, thats what i will be forced to do now.
Some people (not ICC) agreed with me ingame and said "Too much DPS".
Some tell me to leave my crappy faction, but that cant be the way.
To sum it up: Being outnumbered limits your options to none now.
Which results in a snowball effect of hopping faction or not playing at all.
The old stalemate at Tau Ceti - Luyten or Fargo Rock - Agrysia...
I got to say i miss it.
I know you Devs are sick of complains, but i had to say it because i love DS and i care and i wonder how many left the game who share my opinion.
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Agree with you on this one, the devs should listen a lil bit to the players not to do only what they think its good , i miss luyten too and the fights we had there and actually i dont like this map at all(to many AI-would apreciaty if in the middle of the conflicts ai couldnt get there ) and imo each faction should have only 1 sistem not 2
[ This Message was edited by: Flash. on 2011-12-01 04:47 ]
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 301
| Posted: 2011-12-01 05:43
lower DPS would make Kluth less powerfull again, how did u plan to compensate for that?
game is fine, lets see what goodies the devs will bring next patch
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-12-01 08:54
Quote:
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On 2011-12-01 01:30, Fattierob wrote:
Pirates would be weaker then either faction and at the same time have no real "pirating" abilities.
I'm sorry to say that unless a lot of work is done into the faction (to somehow give it a gimmick that makes it a real faction, to somehow give it a large number of ships and new models, to somehow make a , storyline wise, non-faction sized faction a faction), it has no chance of ever attaining faction status.
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Well they have what, 7 different ship models? (1 Scout, 1 Frigate, 1 Destroyer, 2 Cruisers counting Rogen's Flagship, 1 Support, 1 Station) That's about what the other factions have minus Dreadnoughts and unique Engineer/Transport/Supply models.
A better chance of capturing ships, +1 cargo slots on combat ships, and maybe +15% or so troop strength would be a fitting gimmick, maybe even do that instead of a V button special to make it extra gimmicky. More ships is a layout issue, right? Don't scale up Pirate ships when the size scaling is eventually finished to balance out not having Dreadnoughts. Just some ideas.
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