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RSM reviews of ICC |
*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
|  Posted: 2011-11-08 21:25
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On 2011-11-08 05:31, God Almighty wrote:
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On 2011-11-07 20:23, *XO*Defiance{CM7} wrote:
you guys should try the border cruiser. You think the HC is good... naw. its BC all the way.
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kept reactives and gauss at first. noticed how one beam hit took out a full shield side, so changed them to 8x active shield combined with railgun. I went to a luth mandy to test it.
I could sit around at 250 gu, taking full beam alphas easily. i just tanked my shield and made mandy run at 20% hull.
Firepower is less because of lack of torps, but the tanking ability is far greater with 8x shields. i can also imagine gauss guns with accelerators on this thing would make it impossible to kill. nice ship indeed, just needs some other ships to help out on the firepower part:)
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If you catch me in game i could show you how to set up the best BC 
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-11-08 21:31
BCs are tasty.
Dictored BCs are tastier.
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UnknownWarrior
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 724
From: North Carolina, USA
| Posted: 2011-11-09 18:41
Even though I have been MIA for quite a while now, I for one appreciate RSM's views on everything thus far since I have flown with them once before. They're honorable in that since and I have great respect of their views.
The key thing a lot of new players havent grasped yet, and this was true since when I first joined the game, is that ICC takes a bit more management in certain situations since you can manage the state of your shield arcs as to where the other factions cannot. It just takes getting used to.
Now I cant for sure say how things are now at this time, being as my computer is states away at the current moment, but as soon as I retrieve that, I will be coming back online.
Not all us ICC vets have vanished entirely, some just have certain circumstances keeping us away.
I will continue reading this thread on RSM's views to help me grasp how things have changed since I last played, that way Im up to speed on all the changes when I return.
[ This Message was edited by: Duo-021- on 2011-11-09 18:42 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-11-10 02:13
ICC is more difficult to play as a whole. Simple as that. It means more players gravitate to other factions. On an even match player wise, things are just fine.
But thats never the case. ICC lacks a playerbase because ICC itself is a difficult, unrewarding faction for players that like the hard mode of DS. You don't get the unyielding bricks that UGTO can fly or the stealthy, neigh unkillable ninja skills of the Kluth.
You just get more work to stay on the same level.
ICC is fine. Its just harder to play than the rest.
-Ent
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Carbonyx Viceroy of the Ozone
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 15
| Posted: 2011-11-10 08:30
It's about flying your ship. A lot of ICC don't utilize the ships they have in their grasps.
ICC is fine as a faction it's just there's no active playerbase in order to use it effectively.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-11-10 11:12
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On 2011-11-10 02:13, Enterprise wrote:
ICC is more difficult to play as a whole. Simple as that. It means more players gravitate to other factions. On an even match player wise, things are just fine.
But thats never the case. ICC lacks a playerbase because ICC itself is a difficult, unrewarding faction for players that like the hard mode of DS. You don't get the unyielding bricks that UGTO can fly or the stealthy, neigh unkillable ninja skills of the Kluth.
You just get more work to stay on the same level.
ICC is fine. Its just harder to play than the rest.
-Ent
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That's cos the fundamental characteristics of the factions' most powerful ships are skewed.
The ICC was supposed to have the most durability for the weakest weaps.
The K'luth was supposed to have the weakest defense but have the most powerful weaps.
And the UGTO was supposed to take the middle ground.
The problem exists because those few significant ships in each of the faction's arsenals didn't quite fit in with the aforementioned characteristics.
If you look at the most powerful ships of each faction, you'll see that;
The ICC's AD ended up having medium durability and having the weakest weaps.
The UGTO EAD has the most durability and most firepower.
The Kluth Siphon has the weakest def and it carries the next most powerful weaps, but it isn't too far behind the EAD, like the AD is.
Like it or not, the most powerful ship will always be spammed as far as possible. It doesn't matter if 95% of the other ships are balanced.
It only takes that 5%.
Add to that, the effect of enhs, and you see the stats get pulled out of shape even further.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-11-10 11:14 ]
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-11-10 11:52
I love playing the icc, as many have said it requires team work luth and ugto can solo due to their armor and cloak icc have to work together as to keep the most damaged team mate alive while distracting the enemy. My personal favorite ship is the strike cruiser.
at 35% hull i took a kluth dread (forgot which type) to 48% hull before i died due to the fact that kluth weapons have no fall off and i was 17kgu away but still enhancements and the right ship can balance any faction.
ugto should focus on coolers, kluth should focus on ranged and icc should focus on damage enhancements that way the factions are balanced cause my CD and SC are great fully loaded with blue weapon enhancements i can survive 2v1 just barely.
It is your choice on the faction you pick to play, and if your in a fleet and you hate the faction that your in then it is still your choice don't like the ICC play UGTO don't like them play K'luth to each his own. I just wish shields worked as intended (they drop to fast imo even with redirecting shields) all defenses need a 300% boost imho you die to fast in this game.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-11-10 21:28
someone once told me;
"ICC is way weaker. Yeah you can kinda counter that with skill but a noob on ICC is always gonna lose to a luth or UGTO noob"
Yea ICC is harder, and this is the result. Our primary problem "limited numbers" is the result of "hard mode". Its a catch 22, ICC's primary problem is limited numbers. ICC has limited numbers becouse of the dificulty level of trying to make your ICC ship perform on the same level of UGTO, or Kluth.
Guess i was hoping RSM's review of ICC would help aliviate some of the learning curve stigma.
The reason i believed this, is that most RSM play ICC EXACTLY like they do UGTO. Some dont even bother rotating shields. RSM's primary enemy while playing ICC has been Kluth. When dealing with Kluth, you dont have to worry about keeping max range (its not possible).
So, RSM not rotating shields, and not worried about range still seem to play ICC fine. (Kinda like a ICC noob would do).
The only problem is, RSM focuses on dread and station combat, which is worlds different than the ships available to ICC noobs. Capital ship and small ship combat is already worlds different on all factions, even more so on ICC.
So my plan to get RSM to quantify ICC through the potential ICC noob's eyes seems to be a bust.
Thanks anyway guys.
Ill think of another way to get people into ICC.
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Carbonyx Viceroy of the Ozone
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 15
| Posted: 2011-11-10 21:51
Why does RSM choose dreads? Firepower. Why do any Kluth choose dreads? Firepower. Don't blame us for choosing dreads.
Now most ICC choose to fly cruisers. Cruisers are fast but with that being said most of y'all do not know how to fly. I myself do not know how to fly a ICC cruiser effectively but I believe that I'm actually starting to get use it.
There's no way to counter a kluth alpha unless you ping and try to figure out if they are close or not.
It's been stated and it's obvious already. ICC strong vs UGTO, Weak vs Kluth.
Both UGTO and ICC are vulnerable to the Kluth advantage with cloak. You guys just need to ping and figure out where they are. Maybe utilize the ships you guys have at your diposable. Interdictors etc etc. Instead of logging off when you start to lose pres maybe stick around and take a death. I've noticed many ICC personally log off in frustration simply because they are outpowered/outmanned.
I was alone today on ICC and there was 9 kluth. 3 stations, 3 dreads, 2 cruisers, and a frigate. I still challenge them and managed to capture 2 of the dreads.
ICC is a fine faction. It's good at range. You cannot range luth. Just wait for RSM to go back to UGTO so you guys have some targets is all I can say if you're gonna be stuborn about it all. RSM switched over and proved that ICC is indeed not a weak faction like everybody assumes. With that being said, do not go around blasting RSM simply because we didn't produce the results you were wanting.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-11-10 22:00
get off your horse. I said nothing negitive about your fleet or your tactics. I even thanked RSM for trying.
wth is this attitude i keep getting, when im actualy trying to work to dispell the stigma that plagues my faction?
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance{CM7} on 2011-11-10 22:05 ]
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Achilles Lord of the Myrmidon
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 327
| Posted: 2011-11-10 22:50
DEF ,your ships are awesome enough they are not harder or easier to use then any other ship of any other fations in the game. Yes an ICC pilot must keep an eye on his or her shield rotation but at the same time an ICC ship should not be closeing distance (by choice) with another faction. With that being said. UGTO pilots need to be mindful power usage and the proximity of a repair ship or SS. Because UGTO ship take a long time to rep and once our armor is gone our hull is free for the kill we must be mindful of our precious supply lines. Kluth ships also have to mindful of power but also Kluth players need to know when the perfect shot is and the quickest way out of direct combat. Because kluth pilots ave auot hull repair they can launch great sneak attacks and cloke and repiar. but at the same time they must be mindful of escape routs and the possibility of detection form ECCM. Also the piolot must know when to take his precious first strike.
As you can see Defiance all of us in DS have it tough combat wise. ICC might have a slight disadvantage because of you current numbers but DS is growing again so be patient. UGTO's strength right now is bacuse of our numbers not our ships. ICC right now has less players because of people of the ICC going inactive. But right now ADM fleet is helping with that. Take that opprotunity to recruit more people and show them how to play that is how RSM got to have so many active members.
and Im not beating up on you Im simply pointing out the more you complain the more you push people away.
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Boerenkool
Marshal
Joined: December 18, 2007
Posts: 218
| Posted: 2011-11-11 05:41
getting misunderstood again, defiance?
i think defiance actually agreed to u in earlier post that icc not that bad, but at first glance it seems much harder.
Playerbase should b left out of any faction review.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-11-11 07:22
Yeah, it should be ships and layouts, not playerbase. It's pointless to say things like "it's fine as long as you have players" because that can be taken as saying something akin to "zerg or don't bother". I've found UGTO and Kluth to be effective with just a few people against superior numbers, but can no longer say that about ICC because we're constantly required to change our playstyle to "adapt".
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-11-11 18:53
yea achill, i agree mostly. I think you did misunderstand me... but thats ok. 99% of what i say gets twisted, only to have its true meaning come out weeks later. Im used to it by now.
And true that Talien. You all do realize, that everytime we ICC find something that works, it gets broke, or taken away completly right?
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BLADERUNNER2019
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan
Joined: December 18, 2010
Posts: 140
| Posted: 2011-11-11 19:33
After being ICC for a week, I am even more confused why ICC regulars zigzag around in a HC all the time. If you don't want to get in a DREAD, don't complain about enemy DREADS. The ICC AD held its own, it was like a mix of an EAD and Battle dread. In the Seige Dread I decimated every planet in Tetra (except outpost) with just a supply ship following me- every planet was minus workers and power all at the sametime from ONE Seige Dread doing cloud bombing. I also noticed alot of ICC regulars playing, and alot of them helped out during invasions after being asked a few times to stop talking in yell and get with the rest of the group. ICC regulars need to admit that even when the numbers are on, most do there own thing instead of working as a team. Some of you ICC got to witness the success of real teamwork for a week, hopefully you will understand that your ships have power that I have not seen anyone using. If all UGTO or all Kluth players zigzagged around in criusers all the time, they too would not accomplish much.
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