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 Author ICC BC
CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-10-28 18:50   
Some things are happening on the boardercruiser that dont happen on other ships as far as i can tell.

1. Rotating shields sometimes yields more or less shield % than you started with.

2. Damage sometimes passes through your shields dispite not taking them down. It happends at nearly 100% shields (all arcs covered) and just gets worse the closer to 75% you get. PCM's and Harpex nearly always do hull damage dispite not blowing a hole in shields on any side. (damaged but not down)
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance{CM7} on 2011-10-28 18:53 ]
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal

Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
Posted: 2011-10-28 18:56   
not just on the Border crusier, have had it with all ICC ships when i lost an armor arc and have shields moved to cover it.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2011-10-28 19:02   
Harpex nearly always do hull damage regardless of what defence you are using. You're simply experience latency.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-10-28 19:03   
harpex is just the most obvious. Other weapons do it too.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
Posted: 2011-10-28 19:59   
Shields often get taken down quick enough for rotation to not cover it all, even with it raised to 20% transfer. We see the shields never hitting 0 on our end but to the server some damage gets through.
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Brutality
Marshal

Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
Posted: 2011-10-28 20:52   
Quote:

On 2011-10-28 19:59, Talien wrote:
Shields often get taken down quick enough for rotation to not cover it all, even with it raised to 20% transfer. We see the shields never hitting 0 on our end but to the server some damage gets through.



this makes pretty good sense
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Flux Capacitor
Marshal

Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
Posted: 2011-10-29 04:53   
also reactives vs beams, u still get hull dmg
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-10-29 14:21   
Yea. Lots and lots of weapons go strait through shields. Ive just listed the most obvious.

This happens even at the very beginning of battle. You take anywhere from 1% to 10% hull damage without loosing shields at all.
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Brutality
Marshal

Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
Posted: 2011-10-29 14:58   
Quote:

On 2011-10-29 14:21, *XO*Defiance{CM7} wrote:
Yea. Lots and lots of weapons go strait through shields. Ive just listed the most obvious.

This happens even at the very beginning of battle. You take anywhere from 1% to 10% hull damage without loosing shields at all.




only happens to me with the BC and i drop to just 99% hull. Not a major issue but it does get annoying at times
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Demigan
Vice Admiral

Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 88
Posted: 2011-10-29 15:03   
Rail guns even do hull or armour damage at times. I've had once or twice that my shields were still at 90%, and both my armour and my hull had taken 1% and 2% damage respectively.

Furthermore, I've noticed that during repairs, your shields, armour and hull sometimes get 1% damage, which is repaired at the normal rate (yes, even your shields lose it sometimes, but it happens only during repairs that I noticed).

And a problem of which I seem to be the only one experiencing it: my ship seems to have an Ai on board. Every now and then my ship will target and either follow or attack a random ship or planet, I thought it was a problem with my looking around. I use the right mouse button a lot to look around and sometimes during scrolling over an object a right-mouse action is performed. But it happened a lot more and sometimes randomly to be explained by that (although it's part of the problem). At one point I was repairing at a planet, got my mug with drinks in my hands, and while I was drinking the ship decided to fire at a transport that warped close to the planet. It started following it and attacked it without me touching any button.
It might explain some of the deaths I've had while orbiting a planet and going AFK for a minute. While it's not always unhelpful, it's also got me killed once or twice.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-10-29 18:15   
wow!
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2011-10-31 15:58   
I frequently find my ICC frigate or scout gets 99% hull but all shield arcs are higher than 90%. Lately, I've seen my station get 102% shield... It's really weird. I know Jack hasn't touched shield. But why does the error suddenly appear in the past?
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2011-10-31 23:17   
It's not possible. Armor and shield gadgets don't actually control where you take damage, as it's the ship itself that does the hit detection. If there is an armor plate or shield generator on that facing and it has hp, then the damage will be done to that gadget first, and the remainder will be done to the hull if any exists. So there's no use blaming it on the gadget code. hp() is hp() for both gadgets.

The only way you can take hull is if the gadgets are low enough to either not completely absorb the damage or mitigate some of it. If you still see your shields at enough %, then there's a possibility that you might have been hit on another arc or you've taken more damage than you thought, or your client has calculated it incorrectly and had to wait for the replicated data from the server.

There is nothing we can do to accurately solve this. I can give you an example to make it easier to digest as to why this happens:

If a torpedo hits you 'just' on one arc where you have shielding, then there is a huge likelihood that due to latency (and we can't fix this, it's the nature of an online game) you might have actually been hit on another arc which has no defence. Your client will simulate the damage done to you on the arc YOU think you got hit on, but the server will correctly calculate it, as it is the only 'client' which has zero latency, and it didn't receive the 'turning' command for another 50-250ms.

We simulate all damage on the client at 50% of what it actually is just because we know there are situations that happen often in which you will likely find you took more/less damage to the arc you think you got hit on. Every few seconds the server will replicate down all the data on all objects that your client requires and update itself, at which point you will see the correct information.

This is why you see damage/hull %'s jump, and it's why you will sometimes see you've taken damage when you 'think' you've defended yourself.

Again, unfortunately there is nothing we can do to fix this. This is the reality of having an MMO in which damage is not roll-based, and we simulate everything in real time. This is the reason why 99% of MMO's do roll-based gameplay - that 'Fireball VII' you just cast already knew if it was going to hit the target before it had even rendered the projectile graphic.

[ This Message was edited by: PantheoOoOon on 2011-10-31 23:19 ]
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Panduh
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black


Joined: June 03, 2007
Posts: 250
Posted: 2011-11-02 22:17   
Quote:

On 2011-10-31 23:17, Pantheon wrote:
It's not possible. Armor and shield gadgets don't actually control where you take damage, as it's the ship itself that does the hit detection. If there is an armor plate or shield generator on that facing and it has hp, then the damage will be done to that gadget first, and the remainder will be done to the hull if any exists. So there's no use blaming it on the gadget code. hp() is hp() for both gadgets.

The only way you can take hull is if the gadgets are low enough to either not completely absorb the damage or mitigate some of it. If you still see your shields at enough %, then there's a possibility that you might have been hit on another arc or you've taken more damage than you thought, or your client has calculated it incorrectly and had to wait for the replicated data from the server.

There is nothing we can do to accurately solve this. I can give you an example to make it easier to digest as to why this happens:

If a torpedo hits you 'just' on one arc where you have shielding, then there is a huge likelihood that due to latency (and we can't fix this, it's the nature of an online game) you might have actually been hit on another arc which has no defence. Your client will simulate the damage done to you on the arc YOU think you got hit on, but the server will correctly calculate it, as it is the only 'client' which has zero latency, and it didn't receive the 'turning' command for another 50-250ms.

We simulate all damage on the client at 50% of what it actually is just because we know there are situations that happen often in which you will likely find you took more/less damage to the arc you think you got hit on. Every few seconds the server will replicate down all the data on all objects that your client requires and update itself, at which point you will see the correct information.

This is why you see damage/hull %'s jump, and it's why you will sometimes see you've taken damage when you 'think' you've defended yourself.

Again, unfortunately there is nothing we can do to fix this. This is the reality of having an MMO in which damage is not roll-based, and we simulate everything in real time. This is the reason why 99% of MMO's do roll-based gameplay - that 'Fireball VII' you just cast already knew if it was going to hit the target before it had even rendered the projectile graphic.

[ This Message was edited by: PantheoOoOon on 2011-10-31 23:19 ]




I pretend that its simply me screaming for damage assessments out of my command chair and my game client responding to said screams after said damage assessments. I don't scream though, ever.

On a more serious note, this (question and Pantheon's answer) needs to be put on the wiki.
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
Posted: 2011-11-03 16:23   
First of all, even if this does happen... Why bother with it? It's not like you're going to get killed by this very often if at all. If you have instances where you die from it then maybe you should add more examples of that happening, otherwise it doesn't really matter and isn't worth the time to try to fix. (if possible)

Pantheon... your answer assumes the fact that it is an incorrectly computed damage report because the server thought the projectile hit an arc that was already down, but I see multiple examples where it is explicitly said that all arcs were at a fairly high value (such as 90% integrity) and this still ocurred. Maybe you will say that this is because their clients simply didn't update fast enough to register that one of their arcs was down, but the way that they have put it doesn't make it sound like the server later decided that one of their arcs was destroyed. Can you please explain this seeming loophole in your logic? You said maybe some of the damage passed through the defenses and hit the hull directly. Maybe that is why I guess, but why would it be programmed to do that at all, let alone at very high values of defense integrety-once again at values like 90%. Maybe I'm just not understanding something that you do...

[ This Message was edited by: Incinarator |SoT| on 2011-11-03 16:25 ]
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