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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
|  Posted: 2011-10-24 20:48
An observation of the current MV...
Not many players, and the game is totaly unsupportive of this fact. There is a choke point in the center of six systems. In this choke point, there are at least three factions of AI stacked against you, MI planets, no good footholds, and two factions of enemy players. This creates a stalemate.
Futhermore enemies have only one path of progression, as do you. Unit movements are predictable and bland.
If you do manage to gain a foothold on the enemies side of the system, your plagued with trying to keep it supplied, as there is, again, only one path of progression.
I think this could be aliviated by connecting the systems closest to Kaus with jump gates. In this way you have multiple paths of progression. I believe this will help split up the AI cluster buck in kaus as well. We will go from one clear contested system, to four contestes systems, whle maintaining one system per faction for a stronghold (one path of progression).
Just my two cents.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance{CM7} on 2011-10-24 20:58 ]
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blake420
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 28, 2011
Posts: 1
From: Aboard the BeBop
| Posted: 2011-10-24 21:18
that's basicly how it used to be setup. i just logged back in after a loooong time and saw they changed the layout of the system and jump points. i donno why as you said it creates a cluster fluck. unless someone decided it would be better as it would create more action or something.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-10-24 21:31
no... befor it was six systems, four of them linked together to the center system, five systems linked together in a ring around the center system, Kluth and ICC on one side with systems right next to eachother, and UGTO with three buffer systems on three different paths seperating themselfs from the rest of us.
My modification does not put us back to this old model. It does, however, make for dynamic access points to enemy space while keeping defensible positions for each faction.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance{CM7} on 2011-10-24 21:33 ]
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Radiance
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 27, 2010
Posts: 106
| Posted: 2011-10-24 21:39
Agreed. Right now, there is only one way for enemies to get to your space. All you need to do it protect that one gate. If we connected like Defiance said, we'd have flanking and tactics again.
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2011-10-24 22:54
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-10-25 00:24
and.. no, no thread has been created suggesting this change befor now. (this map, this year)
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Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2011-10-25 03:25
u do know that...u can go around the gates by going trough mid space do you? u just need to build one or two supply plats en route. I think adding those gates will make kaus crappy again. atm ppl who wanna ai farm go to kaus, if u wanna kill players u go a gate further.
there is a good chance human players will actually encounter eachother in this set-up. how many times i thought i was only one online and people in metaverse room prolly afk, then suddenly i see the enemy yelling "nice battle, station spam!! lol". Now i check kaus, THEN the enemy shipyards one by one. Where in old days, i'd have to check all shipyards first and maybe finally find a player who was "waiting for someone to get online".
This set-up allows quick find-a-player-and-kill-it action
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Demigan
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 88
| Posted: 2011-10-25 03:50
I actually agree with Defiance, I build a supply chain, supplied it for 2 days before anyone was willing to help me, and then only when I was already capturing planets in Epsilon Eeri on my own. Problem is, friendly AI either travels through the gates, or it travels by the supply chain, where it jumps only once, and does most of the traveling under lightspeed.
In the end, it was 3 ICC with the sporadic AI to help, vs 2 and later on 4 luthies, with their entire AI armada behind them. Almost destroying any chance that a bridge of supply chains would work.
Also, the current system has a weak point: the moment you capture a system AFTER Kaus, then you suddenly have to fight 2 opponents, one who wants to have his system back, the other who takes advantage of it and attacks you either from behind, or starts taking over your staging area system, then you have to fall back and lose the system you captured, guaranteed.
There should be two systems in the middle, Kaus and another one, so that it IS possible to sneak past one faction without them noticing, while still having to look into only 2 systems for players or AI. Sneak attacks from behind, or taking over their staging area system while they are capturing one of the travel-through systems would become possible. Allowing for a more dynamic playthrough planet capturing wise.
Yours sincerely,
Demigan.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-10-25 04:32
So there was QQ about the old 5 system map with Luyten in the middle.
T'was only a matter of time before ppl started complaining about this new setup that was meant to fix the QQ of the past version.
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Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2011-10-25 05:55
I still think we should have a monthly qq day, where ppl can post their SUGEESTIONS, in the developer feedback, SUGGESTIONS area. people will have one month time to think about their qq, the reasons, the testing, the proof, etc. I think we have more structure and development from that then just random threads where at random ppl post replys.
On the other hand, 2 middle systems sounds nice...But will be a lot more chaotic. I can imagine ugto from r33 having acces to cinci, but also 2 area of great contest. same for tetra and dres kona.now, ugto capped kaus and tetra, luth fighhting back, icc attacking 2nd middle system (pirate controlled maybe?), eventually icc movin on to kaus or r33, and we have the same problem again. Only difference is that in this case, there is an added system to have fun in if u want to avoid the conflict. if u want to backstab ugto as icc, might as well go to kaus directly...
The other possibility is that u only have acces to 1 middle system, but that would be unfair. How will it be distributed? ugto and MI at kaus, luth icc at 2nd system? luth icc qq about how ugto have it easy. luth and mi at kaus? I think that one would b best because luth can just skip MI system if planets and gates are aligned well. Still not evenly distributed.
One middle system where all factions + MI come together is most fair. remember u dont have to cap kaus borealis. With 3 factions u will always have 2 fighting for a bone and one running away with it etc. A 2nd middle system wont solve it.
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2011-10-25 07:05
The current population is far too small for the original Metaverse. Those were the times where things we more "tactical" there server on Friday maxed out at 150 players. It takes time to recover from the setbacks that lost the majority of that old community.
Usually the scenario server is greatly ignored, but can be a great source of entertainment and still a decent source of prestige gain. It also provides fleet dedicated players to enjoy the playing the other faction without having to take a vacation. (I recommend this server for training & developing planet building skills)
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-10-25 15:20
i said nothing about adding systems.
Simply stated that by adding gates to link the inner most systems to eachother would create four contested systems, with dynamic entry and exit points.
The mentality of "this system belongs to x faction" Is one that i dont support at all. Systems belong to whoever can hold them. Currently its a logistical nightmare to invade enemy space. One of you said this supports fast action combat. Thats not what this game is about.... at least... it wasnt what this game was about when i started.
Fighting in the center system currently is just a cluster buck. Its you and your ai, vs kluth and their ai, UGTO and their ai, and MI, and their ai. The center system just feels too clutterd. Its supposed to be a space game! Space has lots of SPACE. When i enter the center system, i just feel like we are a bunch of angry cats thrown into a bag made to fight with eachother.
Other ideas that may help.
Space the gates out more to where you cannot get a sencor update on the closest planet/gate. This will make the whole space feel more open.
Put in gates that lead out to the middle of space, with nebulas, or astroid fields. these open space areas will have connecting gates that allow for flanking systems. (i can explain more if needed)
I wish i had brought this up earlier when Doran was workin on the map, Im sorry Doran.
One path of progression is a bad idea. The last map was bad because Kluth and ICC where right next to eachother, and UGTO was separated from us with three buffer systems. (one on each path).
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-10-25 16:09
To this point, the stalemate to have good time in DS is player population & AI population. When I checked the status in GCQL, it said Orion population is perfect, then I logged in. Wow, it's only 1-2 players in each faction. I bet you knew what made it perfect population. I watched AI attack each other in Kaus and I've been considering it as the way to keep game alive ARTIFICIALLY.
I like Defiance idea and would like to include some ideas:
- Add gates connecting Cin & Tau & Eri.
- Delete gates between Cin-R33, Tetra-Eri, Dres-Tau.
- Remove Death Beam from MI except the station; add Death Beam to Nautilus.
Btw, it is really nice to have new layout for pirate, giving them a dreadnaught and open Pirate for unfleet players to play. Having a new faction to play may flow a fresh air into this 10 years-old game. Just maybe.
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2011-10-25 18:57
This is how I see it.
DS is now less focused on gaining and holding planets/systems, and is now more focused on pew pew, BOOM, player combat. Its now more like an FPS. You log on just cause you want to blow up other peoples' ships.
The map was changed to better fit this philosophy. Current MV, its easy to find where the action is, in kaus obviously.
It isnt designed around tha tactical defending and assaulting of systems anymore. Just so its easier for players to find and kill eachother.
But, in a way, it is acctually better to have the current map at the moment. Why? Because the size of the current playerbase is too small to support a game of tactically defending and assaulting planets/systems. So all we get are these minor skirmishes of players looking to kill eachother.
When was the last time you participated in a large scale invasion, or had enough players online to do so?
The solution? We need more players.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-10-25 19:41
I was told long ago that they cannot ballance the game for numbers. I dont see where this is different.
Having a map that has dynamic attack, defend points will be a major bonus for player retention.
Currently it IS more focused on pew pew. And you can get board of Pew pew on the current map in less than an hour. In short, the map should reflect and foucus the main points, perks or features you want to present in your game.
Currently the map reflects that the game is purely an action shooter. DS just, imho, does not hold up well in that genre.
The current planet system is also reflective of an action shooter. But... ill leave that alone for now.
Basicly your Level does not reflect yor feature set. Its like playing a sub simulator that takes place entirely in a shallow river....
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