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Make ships move slower |
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
|  Posted: 2011-08-07 06:43
I've personally wanted just Dreads to be slower, since they move far too quickly for their power. They're basically just oversized cruisers, but with alot more firepower and armor.
And to think they used to be faster.
-Ent
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2011-08-07 06:56
In truth the ships would be moving at a faster turning speed. In the technological era the game takes place I definitely see them moving faster. Though I'm sure the ships wouldn't be the size of Europe, and I'm sure they would be engineered differently from the current "space has a flat surface"
Stations don't require a high turn rate though the idea of a mobile space station died with Star Wars. They should be like Juggernaughts. Though with its turn speed and velocity the concept in most space adventures are "the bigger the ship the more speed the more power"
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The Stig
1st Rear Admiral
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: August 04, 2011
Posts: 14
From: killface
| Posted: 2011-08-07 07:28
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On 2011-08-06 21:57, Scorched Soul[+R] wrote:
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On 2011-08-06 21:15, The Stig wrote:
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On 2011-08-06 19:34, Scorched Soul[+R] wrote:
Words...
But if you want to make it easier for me to uncloak on your tail and watch you struggle to move into any kind of fighting position go ahead.
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Looking forward to this. I've yet to be impressed by a luth who thought being on my tail was a kill. So far only once have I been gotten like that, and it was in an enemy dictor field.
There's more to getting in the rear of a ship than turn rate, and other ways to avoid having an enemy stay on your six. Turning isn't the be all end all.
And....is that manuvering enhancements I see? Hmmmmmmm......and thrust enhancements too....?
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if I uncloak directly behind you going the same speed as you and all of the sudden it takes you longer to make any kind of adjustment to your relative postition such as turning accelerating or decelerating im pretty sure it would get easier to stay behind you for longer not harder.
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I guess only my ships have an e-jump? You should get one for yourselves. They work great.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-07 09:27
Well, this is a 2D plane game after all, and realism is pretty much a long shot. But that being said, anyone remember the Star Control series? They used to have faux-newtonian physics for the ships. The 2 determining factors for ship handling was the thrust and turn rate. There was no speed limit, and you could go really fast by gravity-whipping yrself around a planet.
I guess what prolly needs to be looked at is the acceleration and turn rate, not necessarily the top speed of the ships.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2011-08-07 11:42
Absolutly NOT!!
like u said, this is a Tactical game. If u had plenty of time to consider every move u make, it would be a Strategic game.
It'd turn dynamic combat into a stand still shootout like EVE.
Speed is nessary in a game like DS where u can dodge enemy fire. and Piloting skills and ability to read you opponets moves contributes to your overall effectiveness as a player.
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Ray[OU]
Marshal
Joined: December 07, 2010
Posts: 189
From: Some where in deep space, From another galaxy. [Origin Unknown]
| Posted: 2011-08-07 17:42
how bout those that want to change the game further put a sock in it its bad enough leave it alone before you make matters worse DS used to be enjoyable now its just tryin to keep my pres and thats not fun for some one whos tryin to reach marshall and dont tell me to use small ships thats obserd and i shudnt have to big ships= bigger and more guns thuse more pres thus me=closer to marshall LEAVE THE GAME ALONE!-GA Ray has spoken
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-07 22:19
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On 2011-08-07 11:42, Delando wrote:
Absolutly NOT!!
like u said, this is a Tactical game. If u had plenty of time to consider every move u make, it would be a Strategic game.
It'd turn dynamic combat into a stand still shootout like EVE.
Speed is nessary in a game like DS where u can dodge enemy fire. and Piloting skills and ability to read you opponets moves contributes to your overall effectiveness as a player.
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OK. Should we then triple projectile speeds, and triple the range of all beams?  
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-07 22:29
no.
Why does everyon want to pwn small ships with their stations and dreads?
and for the guy trying to make marshal refusing to use small ships.
im nearly CM. 70% of the way paved with a combat destroyer and heavy cruiser.
ya made me LOL
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-08-07 22:30 ]
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-08-07 22:34
Take a page from Starfleet Command:
Your turn rate is based on your current speed. At 0% thrust, you turn like a dying cow.
At 25%, you have a decent turn speed.
At between 30%-60% speed (Depending on the ship size) , your ship reaches optimal turning speed.
At 100% thrust, you turn almost as slowly as if you weren't moving at all.
This gave small vessels (Which could turn faster at lower speeds) a massive advantage over larger vessels, in that they could stay outside of firing arcs much easier.
But then, that game was massively more complicated than Darkspace. As it stands, the best option for a small ship on your tail is to just hit the brakes and let them pass you. Then you unload on them with your best arc because you turn at the same rate regardless of speed.
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-08-07 22:37
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On 2011-08-07 22:34, Reznor wrote:
Take a page from Starfleet Command:
Your turn rate is based on your current speed. At 0% thrust, you turn like a dying cow.
At 25%, you have a decent turn speed.
At between 30%-60% speed (Depending on the ship size) , your ship reaches optimal turning speed.
At 100% thrust, you turn almost as slowly as if you weren't moving at all.
This gave small vessels (Which could turn faster at lower speeds) a massive advantage over larger vessels, in that they could stay outside of firing arcs much easier.
But then, that game was massively more complicated than Darkspace. As it stands, the best option for a small ship on your tail is to just hit the brakes and let them pass you. Then you unload on them with your best arc because you turn at the same rate regardless of speed.
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+1
I also think the devs should at some point work in reverse Movement which should be 1/2 of your forward velocity
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-07 22:46
Quote:
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On 2011-08-07 22:34, Reznor wrote:
Take a page from Starfleet Command:
Your turn rate is based on your current speed. At 0% thrust, you turn like a dying cow.
At 25%, you have a decent turn speed.
At between 30%-60% speed (Depending on the ship size) , your ship reaches optimal turning speed.
At 100% thrust, you turn almost as slowly as if you weren't moving at all.
This gave small vessels (Which could turn faster at lower speeds) a massive advantage over larger vessels, in that they could stay outside of firing arcs much easier.
But then, that game was massively more complicated than Darkspace. As it stands, the best option for a small ship on your tail is to just hit the brakes and let them pass you. Then you unload on them with your best arc because you turn at the same rate regardless of speed.
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I was actually joking abt tripling the weaps speed and beam range.
But this idea actually sounds pretty cool. Would add more "think" into the game. Good one.
I also think that torps and missiles should move a bit faster and have better tracking. Currently, small ships dodge missiles much too easily. When a salvo of 4 missiles are launched at your scout or frig, your pucker factor should go up 3 notches.
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DubStep Santa
Marshal
Joined: July 23, 2004
Posts: 80
From: Atlanta GA
| Posted: 2011-08-08 06:58
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On 2011-08-06 19:10, Talien wrote:
All this would do is make it easier for luth to ambush people.
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BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-08-08 07:43
Someone talked about realism. Now you're all totally screwed.
First off: Ships in space WOULD, in fact, turn at the same rate regardless of speed, just like cars and aircraft. The only reason that it looks like, say, cars can't turn as quickly at high speeds is that they lose traction at high speeds when going around corners. If your car had some kind of infinite-traction system and you turned the steering wheel all the way around to the left, it would make the same-sized circle regardless of your speed. Similarly, in aircraft their turning circles get larger at higher speeds because they effectively start skidding through the air.
This is irrelevant to spacecraft, since there are no roads or air in space. Instead they use thrusters to spin around on their axis, like a spinning top. And just like a spinning top, it doesn't matter what direction they're moving or how fast they're moving, they still spin around at the same speed, and could conceivably accelerate their spin to somewhere around the speed of light.
Second off: Spacecraft have no maximum turning speed (barring the speed of light and the structural limits of what you've built the ship from, plus your crew turning into paste from the G-forces). The main factor is how quickly you can accelerate using your turning thrusters. Since there's no friction in space, you would keep spinning forever once you turned off your thrusters, and you'd need to take the same amount of time slowing down your spin as you did getting to that speed in the first place.
This leads to the next point: Large spacecraft will be incredibly slow to accelerate. Doing some rough back-of-the-envelope calculations suggests that an UGTO dreadnaught at 1.5km length will need turning thrusters that are more powerful than its main engines in order to perform a 180-degree turn in less than fifteen minutes. Using the turning thrusters to move the ship sideways would be faster than turning the ship to point in the right direction and using its main engine to change its direction of travel.
Which leads to the final point: There is no friction in space. Spacecraft will not change their direction of travel simply by rotating; they need to turn to point towards their target and then engage their main engines, adjusting the angle of the ship to compensate for the fact that the ship is now effectively sliding sideways.
TL;DR: Spaceships are trapped in a permanent powerslide, except that powersliding cars have more control over their steering.
Which all makes it really hard to manoeuvre nimbly and evade enemy fire, since a lot of a ship's motion will be very predictable.
Which really sucks for darkspace, since it's all about evading enemy fire and in the time it takes for a projectile to travel from one ship to the other you would have hardly moved.
But that's because darkspace has incredibly unrealistic weapon ranges. Or rather, incredibly unrealistic engagement ranges. Because of the incredible speed and range of lasers, missiles, and particle cannons, it's not unlikely that combat will take place at ranges of millions of miles, where it might take several minutes for the enemy laser fire to reach you and thus give you plenty of time to get your lumbering warship out of the way.
Also, it would be really complicated to play with a realistic system, because you'd have to manage the current velocity of your ship (which won't be in the same direction as you're pointing), your acceleration (which will be in the direction you're pointing but won't neutralise your current velocity), your rotation rate (which won't be zero if you take your hands off the controls), your rotation acceleration (which is what you're using to change your rotation rate), and what the ship you're trying to fight is doing, since it's most likely flying sideways around you in a giant screeching circle while you desperately attempt to match your rotation speed to its movement and avoid a looming planet at the same time. Oh, and fire your weapons.
TL;DR: Imagine Darkspace, but on an ice rink.
As for the original point of making everything slower, I'm not massively in favour of that approach unless you slowed everything else down, increased weapon ranges, or otherwise didn't turn the game into a who-has-more-guns-because-we-can't-miss-each-other-fest. As it is, dreadnaughts already have trouble dodging things, and slowing them down would make dreadfights even shorter.
On that note, has anyone noticed that fights between dreadnaughts are often over faster than fights between scouts?
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2011-08-08 16:51
reality sux
what about the heat from weapons.... spaceships are unable to reduce heat in another way than radiation
we'd have to make sure, that we don't cook ourselves while fighting
and a hull-breach would reduce the available amounts of air within the ship
and last but not least:
what about those brave (wo-)mans who die while you take hits ? a ships performance would be seriously crippled, if there is no one left to reload your guns or shovel the coals into your engine
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-08-08 17:40
I wasn't adhereing to any realistic constraints when I made this post.
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