| Author |
(observation)Missiles |
µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
|  Posted: 2011-07-17 14:14
I am noticing that missiles have a huge swing to them when firing so that they hit from above.
I would suggest that you guys split that so its 1/2 and 1/2 top and bottom missile launch area.
Also the minimal range on missiles is too great 600gu~ is alot unless Missile ships are getting their own personal dictor i suggest lowering to to maybe 250-300gu and range should be topped off at about 2500gu w/o enhancementsas i have only tested the ICC Support station i think that all station Core weapons should be 360 degrees to cover for when a ship gets with in the minimal missile range
Although you can manually fire missiles and guild them to a target I would like a back up of a core weapons just in case.
_________________
When we fail to dream we fail as a society.
|
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-07-17 18:46
Quote:
|
On 2011-07-17 14:14, µOmniVore wrote:
I am noticing that missiles have a huge swing to them when firing so that they hit from above.
I would suggest that you guys split that so its 1/2 and 1/2 top and bottom missile launch area.
Also the minimal range on missiles is too great 600gu~ is alot unless Missile ships are getting their own personal dictor i suggest lowering to to maybe 250-300gu and range should be topped off at about 2500gu w/o enhancementsas i have only tested the ICC Support station i think that all station Core weapons should be 360 degrees to cover for when a ship gets with in the minimal missile range
Although you can manually fire missiles and guild them to a target I would like a back up of a core weapons just in case.
|
|
The top/bottom thing is to define ICC and UGTO missiles.
600 gu minimum range is a tradeoff for being proly the single most devastating thing in game. Missile ships aren't supposed to be a "derp point at you anywhere from 200-2000 gu smash spacebar". This isn't release. The missiles. They hurt. Alot. IF you have enough support to make them land. In other words: missile ships are for support, they aren't meant to solo everything.
_________________
|
NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2011-07-17 19:34
a station-sized missle-volley kills a destroyer, if the missles hit
_________________
The only good 'ooman is a dead 'ooman. An' da only fing better than a dead 'ooman'z a dyin' 'ooman who tell you where ter find 'is mates.
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-07-17 19:45
Quote:
|
On 2011-07-17 14:14, µOmniVore wrote:
I am noticing that missiles have a huge swing to them when firing so that they hit from above.
I would suggest that you guys split that so its 1/2 and 1/2 top and bottom missile launch area.
Also the minimal range on missiles is too great 600gu~ is alot unless Missile ships are getting their own personal dictor i suggest lowering to to maybe 250-300gu and range should be topped off at about 2500gu w/o enhancementsas i have only tested the ICC Support station i think that all station Core weapons should be 360 degrees to cover for when a ship gets with in the minimal missile range
Although you can manually fire missiles and guild them to a target I would like a back up of a core weapons just in case.
|
|
Missiles are long range ships. Having missiles with any shorter minimum range really isn't that long range.
They're outfitted on ships to ensure that they're more long range oriented. Everything has a weakness after all.
If you want mid range weapons, why not choose something like a Battle Station?
-Ent
_________________
|
Thernhoghas
Grand Admiral
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 243
From: somewhere in Germany
| Posted: 2011-07-18 01:46
Quote:
|
On 2011-07-17 19:34, NoBoDx wrote:
a station-sized missle-volley kills a destroyer, if the missles hit
|
|
IF they hit. While toying around with an UGTO SS I fired some missiles on an UGTO cruiser.
the cruiser was around 1500 to 2000 gu away from me.
the first two full volleys didn't hit it at all and only half of the third volley hit, when the cruiser was finally orbiting a planet.
what was wrong with the missiles? they couldn't hit a cruiser moving in a straight line and failed to hit a static target with a full volley.
_________________
It is not the beard on the outside that matters. It's the beard on the inside.
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-07-18 02:24
[quote]
On 2011-07-18 01:46, Thernhoghas wrote:
Quote:
|
what was wrong with the missiles? they couldn't hit a cruiser moving in a straight line and failed to hit a static target with a full volley.
|
|
Who was flying the cruiser? Chuck Norris?
On a more serious note, this is the problem with DS missiles. Let's look at the physics. A destroyer is around 360 meters long. That's slightly longer than a modern day US Navy aircraft carrier. No missile can possibly miss something like that.
I can see fighters, corvettes/scouts and perhaps frigates doing the mambo with a missile and coming out tops, but not a destroyer or larger vessel.
Missiles need their manueverability increased two-fold across the board
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-07-18 02:26 ]
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-18 02:59
Would like to point out that said US carrier size ship is traveling at aproximatly 1600 meters/sec at 25gu/sec
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/InnaSokolyanskaya1.shtml
Challanger was traveling 8000m/sec when it exploded.
thats about 125gu/sec
The fastest listed anti ship missile is the DF-21D 2010 kg Kinetic energy penetrator and travels at 12250 km/h (Mach 10).
Thats about 3400m/sec or about 56gu/sec
Just some fun facts.
_________________
Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
339,144
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-07-18 04:59
Yes, fun facts indeed.
And if a vessel the size of a USN carrier can turn at that rate, in the game. The missile, whose mass is probably less than 1% of that ship should be able to outturn it.
The speed diff between the missile and dessie is not so great as a Harpoon vs a seagoing ship perhaps, but perhaps more so like a torpedo vs a ship, and ships can't outrun nor outturn torps.
So either all ships need their turn rates decreased, or missiles need their turn rates increased.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-07-18 05:00 ]
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-07-18 06:56
DarkSpace is not real life, and an air based atmosphere does not provide the same testing ground as the vacuum we all know as space.
Missiles will not be turning on a dime.
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-07-18 08:15
If it was realistic everything would use Newtonian physics as a base for maneuvering, even if the game engine could handle that I doubt a lot of players could.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2011-07-18 08:16
Quote:
|
On 2011-07-18 06:56, Pantheon wrote:
DarkSpace is not real life, and an air based atmosphere does not provide the same testing ground as the vacuum we all know as space.
|
|
Beat me to it lol.
I can agree they are too errant, but that doesn't mean they should be making right hand turns. That is left for the ai scouts to do 
_________________
bucket link
|
CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-07-18 08:27
i guess my fun facts are out of place.
They were not to be an argument for or against missile accuracy. Just fun.
_________________
Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
339,144
|
µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-07-18 11:06
i think Missiles hit-to-miss ratio is better than currently (i would suggest means for missiles to s/d when they miss a smaller ship causing AoE damage) it's just that missiles are so few and so easy to shoot down maybe after all is said and done you guys could add- on to missiles ships a dummy missile that intercepts a ships pd allowing more missiles to strike.
On a side note i would also like a AoE missile it would be very slow but can damage ships in a tight group as opposed to targetting individual ships. and it could only be manually targeted.
Like a Nuke but in space and stronger you guys could use the dread death exploision for that effect. maybe one per ship.
_________________
When we fail to dream we fail as a society.
|
Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-07-18 11:12
If DS was realistic, missiles would:
a) Have nigh-unlimited range, limited only by the supply of power to their electronics. Fuel would be a non-issue since there is nothing to slow down a coasting space missile.
b) Accelerate up to truly ludicrous speeds thanks to their low mass and one-way nature.
c) Probably never miss unless the target has a greater delta-V reserve than the missile. Essentially, the target and the missile have a limit on how much they can accelerate as limited by reaction mass, and if the missile has more total acceleration then it will always hit the target.
c) Probably never get within 100km of the target. Effective blast radius of an undirected 1KT nuclear warhead in space is about 1km.
d) Use directed warheads, most likely either a nuclear-bomb-pumped X- or gamma-ray laser or a shaped thermonuclear warhead, both of which have relatively short ranges for space combat weapons but which are rather devastating. Kinetic energy warheads would most likely make use of bursting charges to create a cloud of fragments that saturates the enemy's most probable position.
e) Have no splash damage due to point d).
f) Have no minimum range. Arguably the damage from a kinetic warhead will be lesser since it has less time to accelerate, but if the target is moving at any appreciable velocity it will most likely still cause enough damage to destroy the target simply by getting in the way.
g) Probably get shot down a lot due to the combination of the range and accuracy of directed energy weapons and the fact that objects on a collision course require nothing in the way of gunnery calculations.
h) Heavily damage or destroy any ship that they score a hit upon.
So no, missiles in DS aren't particularly realistic for a wide variety of reasons.
Amazingly, missiles actually have a pretty sharp turning rate, it's just that they tend not to use them because of various issues with latency and aimpoints and the calculations required to steer a moving object to hit another moving object. In theory they're a lot more accurate in beta than release, though, since I prestered Jack one day.
And yes, I rather dislike the fact that basically all missile ships feel like they have a stupendously long minimum range, particularly relative to smaller ships where the average engagement range is about a tenth of minimum range. I wouldn't have such a problem if the missiles had a correspondingly long maximum range, but sometimes it feels like there's virtually no difference between minimum and maximum range.
_________________
[Darkspace Moderator] [Galactic Navy Fleet Officer]
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-07-18 11:41
Quote:
|
On 2011-07-18 08:16, Azreal wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-07-18 06:56, Pantheon wrote:
DarkSpace is not real life, and an air based atmosphere does not provide the same testing ground as the vacuum we all know as space.
|
|
Beat me to it lol.
I can agree they are too errant, but that doesn't mean they should be making right hand turns. That is left for the ai scouts to do
|
|
Then perhaps ships are a bit too manueverable.
Yes, the missiles are currently too errant in their tracking. You can dodge them with a simple turn even at medium-high speeds. Tracking is just way off.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
