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Weapon Leveling |
*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
|  Posted: 2011-06-27 20:01
I think that Weapon leveling should be removed so its like Lasers. Removing it would promote the use of smaller ships because they would be able to do damage vs larger ones.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-06-27 20:59
Quote:
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On 2011-06-27 20:01, Soulless *ADM* wrote:
I think that Weapon leveling should be removed so its like Lasers. Removing it would promote the use of smaller ships because they would be able to do damage vs larger ones.
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Then many ppl would be QQing, 'cos dessies like the Claw would totally shred dreads. IMO, they should reduce the difference between the levels.
But let's see how the new beams work out first.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-06-27 21:11
Not just the Claw, the Nymph too. And then there's the ICC Stealth Corvette.....
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Fatal Afro Man *NCO*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: September 09, 2006
Posts: 201
| Posted: 2011-06-27 21:23
Why not just make it so we can scale all ship weapons up to the same level? ... Oh wait.
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-06-27 21:24
Quote:
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On 2011-06-27 20:59, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-06-27 20:01, Soulless *ADM* wrote:
I think that Weapon leveling should be removed so its like Lasers. Removing it would promote the use of smaller ships because they would be able to do damage vs larger ones.
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Then many ppl would be QQing, 'cos dessies like the Claw would totally shred dreads. IMO, they should reduce the difference between the levels.
But let's see how the new beams work out first.
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people will QQ bout anything that will hurt them in their dreads
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-06-27 23:10
i never really noticed the damage difference between levels that much
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-06-28 00:25
Reducing the curve of the weapons will proly be an acceptable step.
However, dessies with the cannon arangements almost equivalent to dreads scare me, mostly because you can casually dodge most enemy projectiles in them while returning fire. Would be totally imbalanced if weapon leveling was outright removed. And then we have the 5 torp stealth scouts of kluth and icc...
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-06-28 06:44
They increase by miniscule amounts as is.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-06-28 08:08
Quote:
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On 2011-06-27 21:24, Soulless *ADM* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-06-27 20:59, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-06-27 20:01, Soulless *ADM* wrote:
I think that Weapon leveling should be removed so its like Lasers. Removing it would promote the use of smaller ships because they would be able to do damage vs larger ones.
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Then many ppl would be QQing, 'cos dessies like the Claw would totally shred dreads. IMO, they should reduce the difference between the levels.
But let's see how the new beams work out first.
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people will QQ bout anything that will hurt them in their dreads
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heheheh yes yes yes yes! xD
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Ray[OU]
Marshal
Joined: December 07, 2010
Posts: 189
From: Some where in deep space, From another galaxy. [Origin Unknown]
| Posted: 2011-06-28 08:43
Ya know im tired of ppl sayin stuff that wud level a dessy to a dread the whole point of haveing a dread is for it to do more damage then the dessy ok you might just want to use small ships thats your chioce its supposed to do LESS damage then a dread its the ponit of haveing a dread duh! the only dread i have a prob with is the EAD hate that thing if ya want to nerf that please be my guest maby take all its weapons off or somethin so ppl who use EADs can just fly around wud make it easyer for ICC to kick UGTO butt even with out numbers point being dessy is supposed to be weaker the dread no leveling thats just not right and why do you want ppl to use small ships only for?
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-06-28 10:25
nothing wrong with EAD in this version m8t.
AD is the most powerful assault thip in 1.66.
Also dont know what your getting at with the dessy vs dread thing.. deassy beats dread hands down.... exept when that dessy is against a kluth dread... Even then its a tie.
also everyone in small ships cus its funner. Fast paced, edge of your seat combat.
Dreads and stations are... well... boring. (unless you have a dread thats faster than a cruiser like me, then its awsome!)
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-06-28 10:27 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-06-28 11:53
Quote:
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On 2011-06-28 08:43, Grand Admiral Ray [OU] wrote:
Ya know im tired of ppl sayin stuff that wud level a dessy to a dread the whole point of haveing a dread is for it to do more damage then the dessy ok you might just want to use small ships thats your chioce its supposed to do LESS damage then a dread its the ponit of haveing a dread duh! the only dread i have a prob with is the EAD hate that thing if ya want to nerf that please be my guest maby take all its weapons off or somethin so ppl who use EADs can just fly around wud make it easyer for ICC to kick UGTO butt even with out numbers point being dessy is supposed to be weaker the dread no leveling thats just not right and why do you want ppl to use small ships only for?
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It would not matter in the slightest if weapon levels were changed in this case, because Dreads have more weapons. Either way they do more damage.
The point here, is that there is a certain philosophy among certain older players that bigger does not neccessarily mean better.
A Dreadnaught may do more damage, but to do that damage it has to hit. Dreadnaughts being large, unweildy, etc. Are designed around the basis that yes they can do a large amount of damage, but only if they can hit what they're aiming at.
What you have to look at is the notion that given any situation, no one ship is capable of doing everything the best. If that were the case, all people would fly is that one ship.
So balance is designed around a certain few notions the keep in check that sort of gameplay mechanic. The central core of that is while one ship is powerful in one position, it is also weak in another.
Dreadnaughts, regardless of weapon leveling, will do more damage no matter what, but only if they hit. Smaller ships on the other hand, have advantages that allow them to be more accurate at the cost of doing that damage.
What you then have to analyze is this: Is the Dreadnaughts weapons hitting a target often enough to do more damage than a Destroyer attacking the same target? In other words accuracy.
Technically speaking, a smaller ship has much more accurate weapons as they fire faster, traverse more quickly, and the ship itself is fast and manueverable enough to keep donig the damage. Whil a Dreadnaught attacking a smaller ship will not have the same kinds of advantages.. unless of course it gets close enough to do it, in which case accuracy doesn't matter and the smaller ship gets eaten.
Which is all perfectly rational. Its why removing weapon leveling at this point is a redudant measure. You won't change anything significantly.
Now, lets take a look at what actually makes Dreadnaughts better, the fact that they can hit what they're aiming at no matter what. The upcoming patch does alot to balance Dreadnaughts to not make them so omnipotent, but there are a few outstanding issues that would actually make a big difference. And yes, we should encourage small ships just as much as we encourage bigger ones.
You want to fly what you want to fly, but Darkspace is.. supposed to be a team based game, so even a Midshipman can be just as useful as the guy flying a Battle Station. In an ideal game. In an ideal game you would fly what is neccessary. Teamwork over prestige, in other words.
Dreadnaughts are very effective weapons because of their speed and manueverability which isn't in practicality, that much different that a cruiser, while having two and a half times the firepower. So obviously thats a big advantage.
You want to make Dreadnaughts a little less potent? Think about lower their top speed, and really lowering their ability to manuever. Make them bricks with lots of guns, and Dreadnaughts get put into a role that isn't best but good at what its supposed to do (take out other dreads, stations).
At that point, alot of people argue, why bother using it at all? Well because you are playing a PvP game, and you are playing chess faction vs. faction.
So you play to counter what other people use. You pick a piece, its your move. A pawn isn't going to act like a queen, but Queens are more expensive, so is it really worth risking it? So you decide the best ship to use according to the situation, not just because it looks awesome. With appropriate awesomeface.
The point of ranking up, the point of badges, is to have options, and the game is increasingly being balanced around that idea again.
To really bring back the use of smaller ships in the situations that call for it, you might want to make Dreadnaughts act more like stations than Cruisers.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2011-06-28 11:54 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-06-28 13:28
I'd previously suggested raising the speed of smaller ships, but since Station speed was already reduced cutting Dreadnought speed by 5 would be just as good, and easier to do.
And, yes. Smaller ships most definitely DO have an advantage over larger ships provided you aren't being "tactically unsound" and trying to get into beam range just to use your 2-4 CLs/Disruptors.
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*Obsidian Shadow*
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 03, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-06-28 13:36
i think dreads going at 15gu/s is slow enough..
Corvette 35
frigate 30
dessie 25
cruiser 20
dread 15
station 3.5
i like it as it is in 1.67
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2011-06-28 13:51
Quote:
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On 2011-06-28 11:53, Enterprise wrote:
So you play to counter what other people use. You pick a piece, its your move. A pawn isn't going to act like a queen, but Queens are more expensive, so is it really worth risking it? So you decide the best ship to use according to the situation, not just because it looks awesome. With appropriate awesomeface.
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