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Trying out the new MD |
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
|  Posted: 2011-05-26 21:50
Really loving some of these new ICC ships in Beta. SC is very cool. As diehard-md lover i had to try out the new MD.
First Reactions:
-new shield ring gives it a nice color.
-1 less Aft plate, this is gona decrease surviability quite a bit. Especially with the new TC and Scales coming out.
-All Heavy class missiles, looks fun. No guns, all CL.
Testing:
- One-hit-kill tranny, NICE (it was stationary)
-Range for heavy missiles nerfed to 2000gu? Min range around 500gu. what the new range for IT's? 360degree fire arc, will help in run away battles.
-Moded for ALL herpex "deadliest warhead in the galaxy", catchy discription
bump max range to 2150gu. Only 16 rounds though, can i even kill a dread before i ran out?
Then i hit a snag, a AI cruise jump in at 1800gu, i thought " Ah ha, perfect", faced it squarely and alphaed away.......
I got off 6 full solvos before it got to min 500gu, full spread, and the AI cruise: 100% armor
It PD EVERY single missile i shot, AND surffered no splash dmg.
On the bright side, the new CL's were awsome, got the AI cruise down to 75% armor and it retreated. New shields were nice too, the 20% rotation is extremely efficient.
I congratulate the dev team on making the ICC much more survivable.
Though the MD still needs more work i think.
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2011-05-26 21:56 ]
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-26 23:20
IMO the missiles should be verticle launch.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-27 02:02
if the launchers were more evenly spread among the dread, (or any missile ship for that matter) then Trajectories would be slightly altered from projectile to projectile, increasing your chances of hitting. (instead of them all flying as one huge glob, and one misses so they all do.)
Same thing with the Heavy cruiser and Combat dessy. In the fore firing arcs, there is not enugh lateral displacement among the cannons... Thus if one misses they all miss. (not such a good layout for a 2d game).
point and case, If you controle click a space and fire with a broadside, your shots are spread out among the x/y plain, thus increasing your chances of hitting an object that inhabits that plain. If you then turn your fore to the point and fire, your cannons disperse on the z axis.. not so great for hitting things that inhabit the x/y plain.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-27 03:52
Isn't there a missile called the "Linear Drive Missile"?
That would sound sooooo cool...
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-05-27 11:38
I too am loving the power of the Harpex missiles and i think since the icc ships don't have stealth missiles that they should put some dummy missiles there or missiles fire one real shot and one dummy shot so missiles aren't all intercepted, the way it is now is ok if you have like 4-5 MDs but if you are in a stand off alone and suppoting your fleet from a distance then ai and player pd will make it very difficult to get missiles through to deter enemy ships.
Since it is a Missile dread give it like 5-6 cruiser missiles so the dread missiles get through please.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-28 04:37
Quote:
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On 2011-05-27 11:38, µOmniVore wrote:
I too am loving the power of the Harpex missiles and i think since the icc ships don't have stealth missiles that they should put some dummy missiles there or missiles fire one real shot and one dummy shot so missiles aren't all intercepted, the way it is now is ok if you have like 4-5 MDs but if you are in a stand off alone and suppoting your fleet from a distance then ai and player pd will make it very difficult to get missiles through to deter enemy ships.
Since it is a Missile dread give it like 5-6 cruiser missiles so the dread missiles get through please.
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Both beam numbers and missile counts are reduced, there shouldn't be a problem.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-05-28 06:31
I think that there are two ways to make PD useful without making it overpowered.
Either:
1. Make point defense mode increase the energy use of the beam, prolong its cooldown, and reduce the range. (all subject to balancing).
or
2. Make it so there is a % chance of beams missing, scaling by beam size: Small - 10%, Medium - 25%, Heavy - 50%.
As it stands I can't see using the MD as in a support role, the PD of two ships that happen to be in the same area is enough to make sure nothing gets through. UGTO missile ships don't stand a chance in hell of a missile getting through either way as it stands. Pulse Wave and pulse beam together, might as well scrap them.
Only missiles right now are shroud missiles, the fact that they are undetectable means that they at least hit.
As it stands at the very least, missiles tie up the beams of larger ships, which considering the buff is at least worth something. But that would mean flying the MD would be like flying the dictor, just to help your teammates with no goal of actually gaining prestige.
-Ent
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-05-28 10:06
Very doable to increase energy usage if PD is active, actually.
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Gauthus
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 10
| Posted: 2011-05-28 12:25
I think you're underestimating things a bit.
Sure PD can shoot missiles down and against a single MD it may make it useless. But.... This game is really not 1 v 1. MD is kind of a support ship so presumably you have friends who are attacking the enemy you're firing at. The enemy then has a choice. Either use his lasers to hit the nearby enemy or save them for PD. Keep in mind that a lot of ships now will have problems staying in battle for long with the increased energy usage and decreased energy generators.
I know as a Kluth the new energy use on the Siphon is so bad that it is at max only good enough for 3 alphas while moving at 2/3rd speed. Imagine making it use its lasers for PD and you have effectively taken the ship out of battle or caused its firepower to be cut significanly. Lets say only one of your missile sets get to it and it uses its PD. You've just cut its potential damage down by a lot!
The question is, will you make 'decent' prestige off the MD? I think yes as I really don't see most people saving their lasers for PD vs attacking a nearby dread. I can see most of ICC saving their lasers for PD though since lasers dont hit faraway targets 
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-28 12:46
Basically, yeah. Are you going to PD or do more damage? You almost never see a single MD anyway unless it's one of those "I'm going to use the biggest ship I can regardless of how ineffective it is" people. But really, the requirements for the Missile and Combat Dreadnoughts should be switched since the MD is such a specialized ship.
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Marius Falix
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010
Posts: 268
From: Luyten
| Posted: 2011-05-28 13:34
Quote:
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On 2011-05-28 12:46, Talien wrote:
Basically, yeah. Are you going to PD or do more damage? You almost never see a single MD anyway unless it's one of those "I'm going to use the biggest ship I can regardless of how ineffective it is" people. But really, the requirements for the Missile and Combat Dreadnoughts should be switched since the MD is such a specialized ship.
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not a fan, its a good lesson that dreads arent all powerfull, its hard enough keeping people out of dreads as it is.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-28 17:05
I made a short test today.
I must admit the MD gives really a strong kick with Harpex, hulled an AI Mandible in just one salvo and brought it down to 50 hull in the next two. After fourth it jumped away with 36% hull. I only took slight hull damage because I was kiting it while shooting.
While doing that I also noticed the incredible speed at which the MD loses energy. I did a standstill fire test and found out its energy regeneration ability is somewhat unable to keep up with the drain of Harpex missiles, much like missile destroyer with Phoenixes.
Despite the huge amount of damage it gives, I would still use a missile cruiser over it, no other ICC fire support ship can match its mobility and damage.
But I do have a cosmetic suggestion for the new MD. How about moving the missile launchers into the original missile/engine pods on the model, 4 in each?
@PD
I find it hard to believe a single cruiser was able to PD all missiles without taking damage like Delando said. Enterprise's idea may be a way to solve this if it really becomes a general problem, but again, I think there might have been some other (technical) problem behind.
Quote:
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On 2011-05-28 13:34, Marius Falix wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-28 12:46, Talien wrote:
Basically, yeah. Are you going to PD or do more damage? You almost never see a single MD anyway unless it's one of those "I'm going to use the biggest ship I can regardless of how ineffective it is" people. But really, the requirements for the Missile and Combat Dreadnoughts should be switched since the MD is such a specialized ship.
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not a fan, its a good lesson that dreads arent all powerfull, its hard enough keeping people out of dreads as it is.
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I think it's all about faction design:
ICC design DEMANDS you to use cruisers.
K'Luth design DEMANDS you to use dreadnaughts.
UGTO design DEMANDS you to use a combination of dreadnaughts and stations.
So yes, getting the MD as first dreadnaught as ICC pilot is the best (read hard) way to learn big is not always best. Just too bad it applies only to ICC most of the time.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-28 17:48 ]
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IANF
2nd Rear Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2010
Posts: 30
| Posted: 2011-05-29 19:40
Quote:
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On 2011-05-28 06:31, Enterprise wrote:
I think that there are two ways to make PD useful without making it overpowered.
Either:
1. Make point defense mode increase the energy use of the beam, prolong its cooldown, and reduce the range. (all subject to balancing).
or
2. Make it so there is a % chance of beams missing, scaling by beam size: Small - 10%, Medium - 25%, Heavy - 50%.
As it stands I can't see using the MD as in a support role, the PD of two ships that happen to be in the same area is enough to make sure nothing gets through. UGTO missile ships don't stand a chance in hell of a missile getting through either way as it stands. Pulse Wave and pulse beam together, might as well scrap them.
Only missiles right now are shroud missiles, the fact that they are undetectable means that they at least hit.
As it stands at the very least, missiles tie up the beams of larger ships, which considering the buff is at least worth something. But that would mean flying the MD would be like flying the dictor, just to help your teammates with no goal of actually gaining prestige.
-Ent
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i like the second idea. i remember i was in an Uggie ship and the enemies were trying to drop infantry on a planet so i targeted them and shot the pods with my chem lasers and flux cannons
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