| Author |
sag on ice |
Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
|  Posted: 2011-05-24 19:14
you guys (you know who you are) wanna complain about how everyone is in sag all the time, fighting over the same few planets all the time? i suppose you probably havent noticed, on account of your being in sag all the time but there ARE other systems besides luyten and tau (wether you belive it or not). go fight in eps eri or cincinnati for a change. icc and kluth dont even have to go thru luyten to get to cincinnati, they can go thru r33, which (by the way) is another system thats not luyten or tau. hell, you dont even have to stay in sag. lacerta's got 4 systems you can fight over, 3 in andromeda, and cassie's got a whole 5 that you can moisten your shorts over. procyon has 3, but you'll have to fight MI for that as well, and if you want to include ursa minor and rogens rift, there's 7 more (AND you dont have to worry about station/dread space in those two)
so it might be a bit of a catch-22 if everyone is in sag because everyone is in sag, but really if you're that that bored with it, go to one of the other servers. likewise if enough people are bored with fighing over the same two planets in the same two systems in sag all the time, go to one of the other servers. you get a change of scenery and critical mass to draw everyone else with you and suddenly all the fighting is in, say CD+36 all the time. works just fine, in theory, on paper, in principle.
you guys say 'oh the last map was better' or 'this other old version' was better, but nobody seems to agree on a particular revision. naturally, this is the result of a evil nefarious plan drawn up by those biased, unpaid ugto devs that secretly want the game to stagnate and want also to cause devision in the player base by making small changes to the MV every so often, just so players cant agree on a single version of the map, thus generating internecine bickering which makes the players involved look like idiots in the eyes of the devs and gives the above mentioned biased devs more reason to ignore player feedback, which in turn leads to more stagnation of the game, leading to players leaving, which will eventually make the game shut down, which is what we all secretly want, right? and its working like gangbusters all the time.
yeah, so there was no "tarran" planets (its spelled terran, by the way, which means "of or pertaining to the planet Earth", or in this case, earth-like planets which support a high population that lets you put shipyards on them easily) in BD+43 when that system was recently part of Sag all the time for icc to love and squeeze and call George, but so what? save for a home gate, and (arguably) a home planet or two, no faction is really supposed to "have" anything. the point, ostensibly, is to capture the planets, all OVER 9000 of them, for your faction. icc has suitable shipyard planets in cassie, and failing that, a home gate that they will own all the time. get a fleet together, use some teamwork, which is obviously a 4-letter word that the staff will ban people for if they hear them so much as say it, and go capture a "tarran" planet. and you'd get away with it too, if it werent for those meddling ki--- biased ugto devs.
everyone (or at least the 6 of you [you know who you are]) has their own opinion on how to make sag bigger/better/more less boring/laggy/different/"balanced" in their own team's favor (but subtly, just in cause those pesky devs catch on to your schemes).
so what? there's a thread, in a forum with a thing that's intented to allow players to more easily suggest new maps (primarily geared towards scenario maps, but can be applied to the mv as well), but nobody seems to be using it all the time.
look, feedback is all well and good. even negative feedback has its place, in moderation. positive feedback helps too, from a morale persective, its good to know you're atleast doing something right. the catch is that it needs to be useful feedback, and most of what we get (an astonishing amount, even) simply isnt.
its one thing to say the map is boring, that it sucks to fight in the same place all the time, that the battle lines never change because nobody even bothers to go anywhere else, and that the only good maps are in useless servers because everyone's too busy being bored in sag or some other reason. but its not helpful. while it might be a bad analogy, you dont take your car to the service center and go "dude wtf my car gets crappy gas milage this sucks fix it or ill tell people to stop buying your car" (or maybe you do, but i rather doubt that's a good way to get people to want to help you). much better to say something along the lines of "my car seems to be getting poor gas milage, i suspect this is due the tires being under-inflated. i'd offer to run the air compresser myself, but i know you have to wear a blue shirt to do that i know you dont just let every tom, dick and jbud have one of those"
so lets try this. you wanna see a change made to sag or one of the systems in it? fine. post one, just one suggestion (and if you post more than one, ill just delete it, cause thats how i roll. umad?). to make it less boring/suck less, be more balanced, or be more balanced in your team's favor?
dont say "move the gate away from the planet".
say "rotate the tau ceti gate 1 around luyten, so it maintains its ~8kgu distance from luyten A, but now sits approximatly half way between zoca and zeladia"
dont say "the map needs to be changed because its just a stalemate all the time and its hurting the game".
dont say "just delete fargo rock so we dont have to fight over it all the time any more and the planet texture is ugly anyway i mean really who came up with that it looks like someone puked blue and green pixels on a low poly ball and called it a planet you guys should totaly make jbud a dev because he can make better textured in ms paint in his sleep so thatd be awesome and if he was a dev he'd totaly listen to our suggestiosn unlike you guys and why arent there any icc/kluth devs anyway? you guys shoudl just replace all of sag with nicea lol thatd be awesome also make wormhole range longer so we dont have to go thru luyten all the time to get somewhere else make it so we can just skip over it and stop deleting my posts damnit you guys need to bring back 1.481 DEVS Y U NO..."
say "increase the distance between eri and tau so kluth/icc cant simply WH into mordor"
say "i dont always armchair commando, but when i do eps ind and procyon are my favorite maps, would it be to much trouble to swap those in and replace luyten and kaus with them?"
say "could you make it so sag is symmectrical, that way everyone has to go the same distance to get to the center or other side of the server. everyone has the same number of planets to start with, everyone has an equal number of 'tarran' planets, and an equally symmetrical system of jumpgates lets everyone go around a particular system so the game doesnt stalemate anywhere"
say "i think i have a way to solve this pesky little issue about sag being boring. ive sat down and made a chart here of current placement of the systems in sag, and illustrated the direction i think they should be moved and how far to move them. reflecting this proposed change, i have also included these dashed lines here, showing new jumpgate routes"
if you want a gate moved away from a particular planet cluster, consider what that is most likely to do to traffic patterns. you might want more ice/ocean/terran planets in a cluster to make it more defensible, but on the other side, do you want your opposition to have the same advantage if they capture it (which they probably will, even if they have to wait until you log off to do it.) same goes for making planets less defensible.
keep it simple, make it constructive. think it out.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-05-24 19:18
Rotate the map 90 degrees in any direction.
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-05-24 19:22
rant over?
only thing i want down with sag is the objects to orbit their respective planet object.....not gonna happen soon but i can dream
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Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CC*
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: February 08, 2010
Posts: 540
From: Spokane WA.
| Posted: 2011-05-24 19:31
I'm not sure if others feel like i do but the reason i dont go to alot of systems is if it's owend by mi/ai/pirates then theres a chance for revolt then we get hollared at for farming mi/ai/pirate planets. so that leaves just uggie or icc which do have a lot of planets. As far as going to icc or uggies home system the problem i have is when i go through the gate to switch servers i dont spawn for like 30/45 seconds if lucky so when i do i'm allready been fired on and dont know it . so i tend to stay in the same server as my faction is in.
Died~2000~Deaths
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2011-05-24 19:37
@Doran:
There ARE campaigns. Kluth took ICCs Kepteyns Star, ICC took Lalande.
Just: It always comes back to Fargo-Agrysia or Tau-Luyten, just because its logic: closest way to the enemy...
Somewhat the MV is one large Sandbox and the result is the stalemate Tau-Luyten.
A new map would change it untill the new frontline gets setteled. like it or not..
For example ICC often invaded Cininaty, if youd play more you would see that.
But i totaly agree with you: There should be more movement, or at least MORE people willing to move.
So i have no real Suggestion to change Sagitarius sorry, just trying to say after a "reset" or a new map it is like the Cards are mixed again and the way to the new stalemate is fun indeed.
sry for bad english.
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Perihelion on 2011-05-24 19:52 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-24 20:05
I talk about RR all the time but nobody wants to go there because of no prestige or stat gain, ironically a lot of these same people talk about how they no longer care about prestige.
Of course, the issue with RR (at least for me) is the bugged planets in the Lacaille system, but aside from that I enjoy RR. It could use another elite or two for variety though, maybe people would go there if there was more of an incentive.
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Adapt or die.
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2011-05-24 20:14
the opinion on what the players should do as a whole in the mv from a staff point of view is incorrect. The players have no responsibility to make the game fun. the players are there to play the game. Yes thre are those of us in the player base who do try to make things interesting but ultimately the job to make the game where people want to play in the first place is the staffs job.
Stagenation = repetitiveness = boring perhaps the players do follow a predictable pattern. The map is a problem. This isnt trying to be negitive. This is the truth. We all know it or all of u would be playing including the staff. The map isnt the only problem creating the repetitive and boring gameplay but it is a factor.
We as players try to change it up by doing differnt things. In the end however people go where the action is this is human nature. If you want to change the way people play the game. Then create a condition where a player would want to. In what way is it rewarding to go to cap earth,sag or exartha? We have all done it. Except forthe right to say you did what other reason is there? Why would icc for example over extend their limited players to go cap sol? When they could create a more defensible position for themselves in tau ceti.
This is something we all have to work at players and staff. This is not meant to be negative but we all see what the way the mv has turned the last year and its not favorable. If we want to peopel to come back to the game and have new people paly then . We all have to create the conditions in which they would want to. Dont dismiss the idea when its a valid concern. We can all make this game better but you have to listen as do the players.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-24 20:39
Go to another system and have fun fighting AI. Most don't want to fight AI.
R33 is fought over every once in a while, but it's not nearly as convenient as Luyten. Here's the thing: UGTO build their depot planets in Luyten virtually ensuring they can hold the system. If they lose it, it's guaranteed they'll take it back during off-hours. Kluth and ICC both border Luyten, and the gates are placed fairly close to each other and right next to the Agrysia depot planet.
It's the perfect place to go to find action. Once in a while the action moves to Fargo Rock or the Eri system, but most of them (when I play) it's in Luyten.
People want action. Sag is the server with the people. Luyten is the system within Sag with the easiest access to all 3 factions at once. Do the math.
edit: As far as I know there's no warnings or distress calls if someone attacks or caps a planet in a home system. The only way to get people to fight in there is to arrange it ahead of time. Sag is the place to go.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-05-24 20:45 ]
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2011-05-24 20:57
Make sag one massive star system.
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Dakili
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 07, 2007
Posts: 86
From: Quebec
| Posted: 2011-05-24 21:05
I just though of that and not sure If It would be usefull but..
Why not making Luyten a Full Pirate system except maybe for a Planet or 2? Which they could be either terran or something else. And maybe spawn more pirates too.. I mean. I barely see a destroyer or 2 and sometimes the pirate station. Its pirates afterall. They're supposed to be agressive.
Why making that a pirate system? Just think about it a second. You have a 3 faced battlefield and some people stuck there who doesn't care about who wins or anything but just want to survive. Smugglers, Theives and all that kind. Isn't that what Pirates are all about?
Like that people could try to capture the small cluster that is capturable that could give them some advantage. Like I said, maybe a terran planet so they could make a SY or anything else. And what would change from right now? Well the pirates would be agressive enough, they would actually take the planets back If you don't watch out!
What you guys think about that?
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Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CC*
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: February 08, 2010
Posts: 540
From: Spokane WA.
| Posted: 2011-05-25 00:07
maybe if they added some real nice enhancements that was droppped bi the mi/pirates ppl might waana capp or take systems that r in other parts besides where we normaly go to. but there seems to b a problem in capping mi ships dropped 16 on a station and still no capp so it's kinda like y try ,doesnt work = waste of time
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-25 00:33
I hate to say this, but a symmetrical map may be the answer. It's not "realistic" as far as star formations go, but it's probably better for gameplay.
The current stagnation at Luyten and Fargo, and QQ about the Uggies being OP is one of the main results of having the Kluth and ICC sitting side by side.
Kluth looking for a quick thrill will simply pop over to Tau to get their ICC fix for the day. Ditto ICC looking for quick planet caps. The Aa cluster is an easy hop from the Tau/Eri gate.
Meanwhile UGTO hangs on to Luyten and build depots all day till every cluster has one. Occasionally, they'll make a foray into Eri or Tau (usually Tau as Fargo is nearer to the gate... and ICC are tastier).
So battles are usually fought over Fargo, Agrysia, and to a lesser extent Aa, Eyma and sometimes Mycopia.
Suggestions:
- Add a buffer system between Tau Ceti an Eps Eri. No link to Luyten
- Add a couple more planets in Kaus Borealis, at the moment, it doesn't have much value to cap or hold
- Delink R33 or Cincinnati from Luyten. The link gives the UGTO an added route of reinforcements to Luyten compared to the other factions. In fact, since the 3 factions will now have one buffer system between each other, Devs can choose to link either the home system, or the buffer systems to Luyten Central.
- In Tau Ceti, move the Luyten gate so that it's now somewhere in between Fargo and Argrea/Alantis. This will reduce the frequency of Fargo Wars.
Attacks on Tau Ceti will now be more evenly distributed between Fargo, Alantis or Tau Layo. Notice how the gate to Eri is almost central between Fargo, Alantis and Bakube?
- In Luyten, spread out the Myco cluster. Evenly distribute Wecamp, Dawn and Michelle. Using the browser Server map, put Wecamp North-Northwest, and Dawn due-south. This will make the cluster less impregnable dictor-wise.
- In Cincinnati, spread the R33 and Luyten gate from each other. Again, this gives the system owner (usually UGTO) an advantage in reinforcement or response to either system. This advantage will become apparent if we delink the buffer systems (like R33)
That's all I can think of now.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-25 00:35 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-05-25 05:15
Quote:
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On 2011-05-24 22:29, Line of Eld wrote:
are u going to let the siege missle bug (in which no dmg is done to buildings upon impact) go unfixed untill the beta comes out?
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That's how patches work - we can't fix it except by releasing beta, so by definition, it will go unfixed until the beta comes out. But to answer what I think is your actual question, no we won't bypass the usual beta process to release a hotfix just for the siege missile bug when other changes are already in place and in testing. Sorry.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-25 06:09
Good effort PSI-guys.
But some players aren't interested in fighting AI. Some players, like myself, prefer PVP. So the MV layout does matter.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-05-25 06:15
what about putting planet oribitin/moving back in motion? wouldnt that offer always different enviorment?
why was it disabled in the first place?
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