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The future of the game |
Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ] Chief Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006 Posts: 581 From: Norway
| Posted: 2011-04-28 05:58  
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On 2011-04-27 21:45, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
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On 2011-04-27 21:19, Talien wrote:
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On 2011-04-27 17:15, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
I <3 the UGTO bashing about depots.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Every faction depo hugs on the defensive. Period.
They all have their own way of doing it.
UGTO: High armor.
ICC: Missile spam.
Kluth: Cloak to repair near depo without enemies shooting you. Decloak when fully repped.
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With numerical superiority, sure, all 3 factions can camp at a depot planet and drive off an attacking force, but when the attackers outnumber the defenders? Well, let's see.
ICC camping at a depot planet to missile spam with MD/SS get rushed and are either killed or chased away because missile ships are useless up close.
Kluth camping at a depot planet get straight up ignored if they cloak while the enemy moves in, then get pulverized after being pinged or decloaking to attack.
UGTO camping at a depot planet (unless outnumbered by a ludicrous amount like 10 to 1) just sit in place and rotate while tanking the damage if they're in a shroom, or park ontop of a shroom to repair if they're in something else.
If you still don't understand why it's an issue then I invite you to play one of the other factions for a while and experience what it's like when you're on the other end of UGTO depot camping.
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/facepalm
How many times have I stated that I have a non-UGTO alt?
1. Rushing in to hit missile ships hurts. Enough for a combat/assault dread to finish anyone that comes into close range. Combined arms. Can fall to clever attacks.
2. 2 luth stations. A is being attacked and is almost dieing. It cloaks and reps to 100 in no time. B meanwhile has lost some hull, so it fights for a bit more then proceeds to cloak. Rinse repeat. Can fall to sheer firepower forcing 2 or more ships needing mass repairs at once.
3. UGTO smacks anything that gets into QST range. You're ICC. Why are you in QST range? Luth can also snipe using core weapons, krills with range enh have been here for a while. In other words, can fall to smart tactics, mainly out-ranging as unlike kluth, we can't cloak back to the depo should we get hit.
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1. Missiles and dictor is always a good tactic
2. a kluth station cloaking? what that's good for in a battle? And as far as i know, luth station hull is the same as ugto/icc? = takes long time to heal.
Armor do rep fast, but its also weak.
3. Icc still have many ships that aint missiles ships, so why shouldn't they be in qst range?
Krills using range enhs..that means also alot less damage, and who says ugto cant use range enhs to?
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Starcommander Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005 Posts: 579 From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2011-04-28 06:56  
After so long it seems things haven't changed.
To the people wondering why ICC are in QST range? Remember WAYY back, like 6 months ago (there abouts) when the range nerf was done? Ya thats why, with such a small range buffer between the IC and QST its easy for UGTO to get into QST range and just tank the IC damage.
From what I have been reading it still looks like ICC can't sit at a depot planet and have there shields energized by reps. Been sayin that for a long time, that shields need to be repaired by depots. Then ICC will be able to sit at a planet and do the same thing that the other 2 factions can do (sit at plaent and lol at damage).
UGTO sound like there still OP when it comes to planet defence, sit at planet and lol at damage. Game was made for numbers that don't exisist.
ICC supercharge for shields.....was a good idea and had good intentions, but never was practical (and I said so when it came out).
Fixes? Just read back in the archives, I have put them out there. Ones that would fix the bellyaching thats been going one. Ones that would fix the balance issues. All ignored, and yet the issues still provail.
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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
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Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CC* Chief Marshal Army Of Darkness
Joined: February 08, 2010 Posts: 540 From: Spokane WA.
| Posted: 2011-04-29 01:19  
for all those who are QQ uing y dont u wait till the new things r added b4 u start crying about what u get or don't . give the devs ears a break and b part of the solution not the problem.
Died~2000~Deaths[+R]™
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Reznor Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010 Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-04-29 01:32  
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On 2011-04-28 06:56, Starcommand wrote:
After so long it seems things haven't changed.
To the people wondering why ICC are in QST range? Remember WAYY back, like 6 months ago (there abouts) when the range nerf was done? Ya thats why, with such a small range buffer between the IC and QST its easy for UGTO to get into QST range and just tank the IC damage.
From what I have been reading it still looks like ICC can't sit at a depot planet and have there shields energized by reps. Been sayin that for a long time, that shields need to be repaired by depots. Then ICC will be able to sit at a planet and do the same thing that the other 2 factions can do (sit at plaent and lol at damage).
UGTO sound like there still OP when it comes to planet defence, sit at planet and lol at damage. Game was made for numbers that don't exisist.
ICC supercharge for shields.....was a good idea and had good intentions, but never was practical (and I said so when it came out).
Fixes? Just read back in the archives, I have put them out there. Ones that would fix the bellyaching thats been going one. Ones that would fix the balance issues. All ignored, and yet the issues still provail.
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Personally I love defense mode. Think it was a great step towards game balance. Shields should regen faster than armor, depots or not.
_________________ Indictor: 1. To accuse of wrongdoing
Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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deathblave Marshal
Joined: October 10, 2007 Posts: 268
| Posted: 2011-04-29 02:02  
hell i have no problem staying out of qst range in a crisuer and a my speed dread dosenty even use sheilds and it kicks butt just have to out manever ur enemy instead of rushing in
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-04-29 04:34  
Oh man, you IQQU dudes are such pros. I'll SD my ship the next time I run into you guys. What's the point of taking on such pros?
LOL
_________________ ... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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*FTL*Soulless Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010 Posts: 787 From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-04-29 06:40  
kenny make sure to be right next to them.
what do you do about the uggies who point jump everytime their JD is ready?
_________________ We are Back from the shadows.
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Doran Chief Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003 Posts: 4032 From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2011-04-29 09:06  
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On 2011-04-29 06:40, GA Soulless wrote:
what do you do about the uggies who point jump everytime their JD is ready?
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interdictor.
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MrSparkle Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001 Posts: 1912 From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-04-29 11:11  
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On 2011-04-27 22:54, Reznor wrote:
I've always been of the opinion that Azreal is always right, and I still agree with him here .
Though I'm curious to know how you'd change it, Azreal. Bring back .483 (is that the right number?) cloak? But I don't know what .483 cloak was like :S .
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If that was the version where ECM and ECCM had a direct impact on signature while cloaked, it was IMO the best cloak version.
I can't remember old versions anymore, only old game elements I miss.
The new cloak does not work well with the old ECM and ECCM. Lots of ECCM (which makes ships easier to detect) makes them uncloak slower and ECM makes them faster. Logically it's backwards. ECM actively works to make ships harder to detect and ECCM easier.
(the underlying problem is cloaked ships not being considered fully uncloaked until their signatures reach their eventual uncloaked value, which for stations takes forever)
I don't think the old cloak would work with the new planet system though.
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Necrolance Vice Admiral
Joined: October 25, 2010 Posts: 6
| Posted: 2011-04-29 15:31  
ICC? Disappear? Blasphemy. UGTO's ships are suckish in my opinion, and I find ICC's ships to be easier and more fun. Sure, missiles aren't always effective, but that's the CHALLENGE. Where's the fun in having no challenges? Oh, and ICC is hard to use, eh? So then that ship named 'stealth corvette' is super hard to use, am I right? It's so hard to just point and click to fire a 5-torpedo payload of pain, isn't it?
I fail to see your logic on 'ICC is so hard to play and UGTO is easy'.
You guys need to realize that everyone has their preferences. I like the ICC ships more. Oh, and a lot of UGTO players I've met are jerks, while the ICC players I've met are a lot nicer. And so I personally fail to see the appeal of UGTO. And k'luth ships are just not my style, so I'm not going to tread those waters. So yeah. I'm going to be liking this change with ICC.
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*FTL*Soulless Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010 Posts: 787 From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-04-29 15:53  
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On 2011-04-29 15:31, Necrolance wrote:
ICC? Disappear? Blasphemy. UGTO's ships are suckish in my opinion, and I find ICC's ships to be easier and more fun. Sure, missiles aren't always effective, but that's the CHALLENGE. Where's the fun in having no challenges? Oh, and ICC is hard to use, eh? So then that ship named 'stealth corvette' is super hard to use, am I right? It's so hard to just point and click to fire a 5-torpedo payload of pain, isn't it?
I fail to see your logic on 'ICC is so hard to play and UGTO is easy'.
You guys need to realize that everyone has their preferences. I like the ICC ships more. Oh, and a lot of UGTO players I've met are jerks, while the ICC players I've met are a lot nicer. And so I personally fail to see the appeal of UGTO. And k'luth ships are just not my style, so I'm not going to tread those waters. So yeah. I'm going to be liking this change with ICC.
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ICC is harder in the fact that you have to manage shields properly or die, manage energy properly or you may die, that missles are not gonna do much against anything now, that you can't fight things out in close combat with nearly all of the ICC ships, there is no DEPOT hugging. I could go on
and doran, anytime someone on ICC pulls out a dictor, Unless it is heavly covered, a luth will come and try and kill it. Nearly every single time
_________________ We are Back from the shadows.
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Fatal Perihelion Chief Marshal Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010 Posts: 308
| Posted: 2011-04-29 16:55  
ICC dont need no buffs nore mercy.. well maybe ECCM range if Kluth stay this strong.
Please cut off QQ, it is almost emberassing sometimes.
ICC has no real "problems" besides few numbers with unexperienced pilots.
You can see it whenever just 2 or 3 better pilots work together, they manage to handle difficult situations well, even if that does not mean "victory".
We have people which go to Kaus Borealis to fight AI, who say "Oh me! The enemy is coming, lets get the hell out of here!", instead of saying: "Yay! finaly some action!".
People who cant plot a far jump and therefore get ultra defensive because they fear pres los.
People who left their station in their back alone dieing without even noticing.
This is a lack of comunication/experience and some dont want to learn or listen,
but that is ok, we all still learned when we thought we knew it all.
And it is a just a game, everyone is free to fight AI forever and as long as Scenario got useless to get serious combat experience, it is not suprising
that you have "newbies" in Dreads and Stations shaking in their boots in the MV.
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With depots i think who said this is right:
Ignore a single UGTO Depot hugger, or shut down the depot planet, or farm pres if he just sits there and gives it to you...
As soon as a second Enemy comes in: THE DEPOT MAY ONLY REPAIR ONE OF THOSE 2 ENEMYS AT A TIME.
Personaly the only thing that bothers me is that ICC has to spent so much time in fixing Tau Ceti every day.^^
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SpaceAdmiral Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-04-29 17:42  
At entry levels UGTO is easier to play than ICC. This is because many people decide its fun to point jump enemies while in a combat dread. They play to their enemies' strengths and then pay for it.
But at higher levels I would say managing armor arcs is harder than maintaining shields.
Closing distance vs skilled ICC is harder than maintaining the long range.
UGTO ships seem to have good energy because almost everyone shuts pd off. The few people who use pd find it energy demanding to close in on enemies with full speed and pd.
UGTO also have to worry about enemy fighters the most, with other factions having huge pd/cloak counters.
In short, ICC is easier to play at tip top shape than UGTO once you get the hang of shields and energy. But the popular "point jump mash spacebar" works best with UGTO, as they are the slugger faction.
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-04-29 18:21  
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On 2011-04-29 17:42, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
At entry levels UGTO is easier to play than ICC. This is because many people decide its fun to point jump enemies while in a combat dread. They play to their enemies' strengths and then pay for it.
But at higher levels I would say managing armor arcs is harder than maintaining shields.
Closing distance vs skilled ICC is harder than maintaining the long range.
UGTO ships seem to have good energy because almost everyone shuts pd off. The few people who use pd find it energy demanding to close in on enemies with full speed and pd.
UGTO also have to worry about enemy fighters the most, with other factions having huge pd/cloak counters.
In short, ICC is easier to play at tip top shape than UGTO once you get the hang of shields and energy. But the popular "point jump mash spacebar" works best with UGTO, as they are the slugger faction.
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Your delusional.
you should probably see your doctor and get some meds perscribed for your sickness.
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-04-29 18:28  
OK. So icc station sucks due to one armor. This forces us to use our station in nich roles. I dont think this needs fixed, rather the other two braught in line with this.
ICC cant depo camp like the other two. Again i say the other two should be more like icc.. not icc like them. Depo camp is a lame, stupid, unrealistic tactic that i want no part of. Im glad we cant do it too.
Someone said above "why dont you just attack somewhere else where there is no depo planet". ... have you looked at ugto space? every cluster is a depo planet (and i can hardly blame them). If you ignore the depo planet all together you face an imortal fleet. Where when you kill a dread/station it appears but a moment later full health and shooting you again. Lame.
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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