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Couple of observations |
Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
|  Posted: 2011-04-13 19:12
Quote:
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On 2011-04-13 16:35, Soulless* wrote:
does jack need to come and say there is no counter for luth cloak?
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Well, I'm not Jack, but...
There is no counter to cloak in the sense that there's no button you can press to make a K'luth's cloak vanish.
However, you can degrade it in a couple of ways. Pinging will briefly reveal their position nearby, and active ECCM will make cloak and decloak times longer, to the point where it can be possible to make it take a VERY long time to cloak.
Similarly, beacons will increase signature, and thus make it take longer for luth ships to cloak and decloak. During this time, they are vulnerable and you can shoot them to pieces.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-04-14 08:16
Correction, Ping and active ECCM USED to be a somewhat effective counter to cloak when employed en masse, but with the range nerf they're mostly useless unless you already know exactly where the Kluth ships are. 400 GU range on ECCM is horrid.
Not completely related, but since we're on the subject of EW.....the ECM changes have also made planetary sensor bases 100% useless as detection since they were apparently not modified along with the ship based ECM/ECCM. A single Scout or Frigate with 4 ECM can completely nullify 4 planetary sensor bases, used to be 2 bases would counter 4-5 ship based ECM depending on how close the ship got, even in a Bomber Frigate fitted with 5 ECM you had to hope there weren't more than 2 sensor bases otherwise you couldn't get within 400 GU without being detected unless you had another person with ECM along, let alone cover your bombs, but now you can sit comfortably at 200 GU alone with 4 ECM active and be undetected unless someone crammed the planet full of sensor bases.
As for Beacons, they need a speed boost.
[ This Message was edited by: Talien on 2011-04-14 08:19 ]
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Adapt or die.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-14 11:20
Quote:
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On 2011-04-13 19:12, Gejaheline wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-13 16:35, Soulless* wrote:
does jack need to come and say there is no counter for luth cloak?
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Well, I'm not Jack, but...
There is no counter to cloak in the sense that there's no button you can press to make a K'luth's cloak vanish.
However, you can degrade it in a couple of ways. Pinging will briefly reveal their position nearby, and active ECCM will make cloak and decloak times longer, to the point where it can be possible to make it take a VERY long time to cloak.
Similarly, beacons will increase signature, and thus make it take longer for luth ships to cloak and decloak. During this time, they are vulnerable and you can shoot them to pieces.
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and from a luth stand point beacons are the worst, as formentioned the uncloak time is the worse if we get taged while cloaked. once we are taged we have to have our cloak adjust for that higher sig. every beacon adds +30 sig for a max of 90 sig. in terms for you humans that gives you roughly 90 seconds of hitting a luth. and when we uncloak we have to rebuild that 90 sig so for again 90 seconds we are visable and unable to fire,jump and recloak.
so as i said earlier use your counters, and use em well and you could beat luth everytime you comeagianst us.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-04-14 12:12
no nerf and boost with eccm, beacons an cloak are neede, you only have to learn to manage your shields better, and use your abilites right
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2011-04-14 12:29
Speaking of AHR repairing Armor
i Must say, i did some test With AHR. The AHR will only Start repairing Hull and Stops once its full
however i Did see It also Repairs Armor At the same time as hull, Of course it doesn't repair armor after hull is full
i tested it it with both no armor AHR on and out of AHR and no amor,
The results Were that AHR DO repair Armor as well as hull. and this has been going on a very long time too  its weird soemone finally notices it (or everyone else deny it)
Whenever this was a feature or Bug beats the hell out of me
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2011-04-14 16:37
Stations are allready damn immobile enough. we dont need QQing noobs whinging about them being fast.
I mean, oboviously they dont have to put up with 5 min JD recharges.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-04-14 20:05
Quote:
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On 2011-04-14 11:20, Borgie (if its red its dead) wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-13 19:12, Gejaheline wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-13 16:35, Soulless* wrote:
does jack need to come and say there is no counter for luth cloak?
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Well, I'm not Jack, but...
There is no counter to cloak in the sense that there's no button you can press to make a K'luth's cloak vanish.
However, you can degrade it in a couple of ways. Pinging will briefly reveal their position nearby, and active ECCM will make cloak and decloak times longer, to the point where it can be possible to make it take a VERY long time to cloak.
Similarly, beacons will increase signature, and thus make it take longer for luth ships to cloak and decloak. During this time, they are vulnerable and you can shoot them to pieces.
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and from a luth stand point beacons are the worst, as formentioned the uncloak time is the worse if we get taged while cloaked. once we are taged we have to have our cloak adjust for that higher sig. every beacon adds +30 sig for a max of 90 sig. in terms for you humans that gives you roughly 90 seconds of hitting a luth. and when we uncloak we have to rebuild that 90 sig so for again 90 seconds we are visable and unable to fire,jump and recloak.
so as i said earlier use your counters, and use em well and you could beat luth everytime you comeagianst us.
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If you tag a luth he's out of the fight regardless of death.
If you tag a luth and he's still in the fight, then there are already so many kluth that they don't need to cloak. (same for human factions)
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A Gundam
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: July 09, 2010
Posts: 18
| Posted: 2011-04-15 15:17
Quote:
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On 2011-04-14 16:37, iwancoppa wrote:
Stations are allready damn immobile enough. we dont need QQing noobs whinging about them being fast.
I mean, oboviously they dont have to put up with 5 min JD recharges.
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im no noob. Ive flown a Sector Command base from exertha to Earth on many occasion just to blow it to hell. The trip takes just under an hour. Thats too fast in my book.
Every other ship in DS is nich, and has specific jobs. Stations are the best ship to field when taking plants becouse you can
A; just jump right to the planet you want to take
B; Have enuff defence to tank the planets defences to a point where the planet is like a todler trying to fight in the MMA.
C; Have enuff offence to deal with several other ships. (in my experience stations are eaqual to two dreads. Sometimes more)
D; Have bombers on board to deal with enemy troups
E; Have drones to constantly support points A, B, C, and D.
F; Have 12 infantry onboard to fortify the planet once taken
G; Have build drones on to repair any damage to the planet.
Stations are a moving planet eating mass of doom. They do the job of seven ships and are very mobile to boot.
lets face it 6gu/sec and five minute jump drive is a small price to pay for feilding seven ships in one.
All im asking is for the game to have more depth. I believe Stations should be an ultimate Defence platform, or forward opperational base. Not a GODWHYFLYANYTHINGELSEEVERAGAIN ship.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2011-04-15 16:51
Quote:
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On 2011-04-12 19:34, Borgie (if its red its dead) wrote:
Why is it when some dies to a luth ship they come to the forums crying for nerfs to luths cloak,repair systems, or weapons?
For starters cloak is not a get outta free card for luth. Both human facations have the ability to counter luths cloak, is it our fualts that yall fail to use em?
[ This Message was edited by: iwancoppa on 2011-04-15 16:57 ]
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ping has been nerfed so hard it may aswell not even exist.
Quote:
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On 2011-04-15 15:17, Darth Taco wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-14 16:37, iwancoppa wrote:
Stations are allready damn immobile enough. we dont need QQing noobs whinging about them being fast.
I mean, oboviously they dont have to put up with 5 min JD recharges.
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im no noob. Ive flown a Sector Command base from exertha to Earth on many occasion just to blow it to hell. The trip takes just under an hour. Thats too fast in my book.
Every other ship in DS is nich, and has specific jobs. Stations are the best ship to field when taking plants becouse you can
A; just jump right to the planet you want to take
Stations arent immune to dicos, and are **** slow
B; Have enuff defence to tank the planets defences to a point where the planet is like a todler trying to fight in the MMA.
Thats the planet builder's fault, and seriously, stations are as bigas a planet, they are meant to be hardy
C; Have enuff offence to deal with several other ships. (in my experience stations are eaqual to two dreads. Sometimes more)
once again, its highly immobile and planet sized...
D; Have bombers on board to deal with enemy troups
So? Bombers are USELESS. I repeat, bombers are USELESS
E; Have drones to constantly support points A, B, C, and D.\
That is partially to help the fact their collision rings are bigger them some planets.... and a planet sized ship would have drones
F; Have 12 infantry onboard to fortify the planet once taken
A planet cantake 32, a planet sized station can take 12. quit QQ
G; Have build drones on to repair any damage to the planet.
only 1 in 3 stations do.
Stations are a moving planet eating mass of doom. They do the job of seven ships and are very mobile to boot.
7 ships? no. maybe 4. Very mobile? hell no. nass of doom? A baby could hit one from 100 meters with a baseball.
lets face it 6gu/sec and five minute jump drive is a small price to pay for feilding seven ships in one.
Not really.
All im asking is for the game to have more depth. I believe Stations should be an ultimate Defence platform, or forward opperational base. Not a GODWHYFLYANYTHINGELSEEVERAGAIN ship.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-04-15 17:25
[quote]
On 2011-04-15 16:51, iwancoppa wrote:
[quote]
*junk*
[quote]
your...defence...is... that their as big as planets?????
Last time i checked, 1400 meters is no where near as big as a planet.
i stick to my guns. My observations are valid.
[ *toned down hostility 48% using eight advanced QQ coolers]
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*FTL* on 2011-04-15 17:28 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-04-15 17:51
[quote]
On 2011-04-15 16:51, iwancoppa wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-12 19:34, Borgie (if its red its dead) wrote:
Why is it when some dies to a luth ship they come to the forums crying for nerfs to luths cloak,repair systems, or weapons?
For starters cloak is not a get outta free card for luth. Both human facations have the ability to counter luths cloak, is it our fualts that yall fail to use em?
[ This Message was edited by: SpaceAdmiral on 2011-04-15 17:52 ]
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ping has been nerfed so hard it may aswell not even exist.
Quote:
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Ping was never intended in the first place, and ping is to supplement beacons, not to counter cloak by itself.
Stop focusing on trying to kill them cloaked, think of it this way:
With all the eccm in the air they can neither decloak or cloak efficiently, they will get hit at with no form of retaliation.
On 2011-04-15 15:17, Darth Taco wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-14 16:37, iwancoppa wrote:
Stations are allready damn immobile enough. we dont need QQing noobs whinging about them being fast.
I mean, oboviously they dont have to put up with 5 min JD recharges.
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im no noob. Ive flown a Sector Command base from exertha to Earth on many occasion just to blow it to hell. The trip takes just under an hour. Thats too fast in my book.
Every other ship in DS is nich, and has specific jobs. Stations are the best ship to field when taking plants becouse you can
A; just jump right to the planet you want to take
Stations arent immune to dicos, and are **** slow
B; Have enuff defence to tank the planets defences to a point where the planet is like a todler trying to fight in the MMA.
Thats the planet builder's fault, and seriously, stations are as bigas a planet, they are meant to be hardy
C; Have enuff offence to deal with several other ships. (in my experience stations are eaqual to two dreads. Sometimes more)
once again, its highly immobile and planet sized...
D; Have bombers on board to deal with enemy troups
So? Bombers are USELESS. I repeat, bombers are USELESS
E; Have drones to constantly support points A, B, C, and D.\
That is partially to help the fact their collision rings are bigger them some planets.... and a planet sized ship would have drones
F; Have 12 infantry onboard to fortify the planet once taken
A planet cantake 32, a planet sized station can take 12. quit QQ
G; Have build drones on to repair any damage to the planet.
only 1 in 3 stations do.
Stations are a moving planet eating mass of doom. They do the job of seven ships and are very mobile to boot.
7 ships? no. maybe 4. Very mobile? hell no. nass of doom? A baby could hit one from 100 meters with a baseball.
lets face it 6gu/sec and five minute jump drive is a small price to pay for feilding seven ships in one.
Not really.
All im asking is for the game to have more depth. I believe Stations should be an ultimate Defence platform, or forward opperational base. Not a GODWHYFLYANYTHINGELSEEVERAGAIN ship.
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In addition to what iwancoppa wrote about stations:
Stations have counters, for one range.
-ICC stations are weak enough with shields to be brought down with enemy stations or dreads.
-Kluth stations can't hide efficiently with huge hitboxes, large cloak time, and slow speed. They can be outranged, but watch out for fighters.
-UGTO stations can be outranged by ICC or sniped by a range krill. Luth can also hit and run with cloak. Most stations field ablative so energy weapons hurt.
Now to address the points
A. 1 dico blocking station reinforcements makes stations cry. They are literally trapped forever if the dico chooses to.
Imagine point A is the station main force. Point B is a planet cluster which more stations and/or dreads come from. A dico can stall stations by just standing between point A and B, after stopping some forces it retreats away 2k gu, but still stands between point A and B. Even if you have only stopped 1 jump, thats 5 minutes you have prevented reinforcements from coming in.
B. A station alone is still severely hurt by planetary defence. However, when capping a planet there happen to be many player controlled ships and a crap load of ai to spread the damage, thus it seems like they take little damage.
C. Stations can be outranged, completely nullifying any offence. The only exception is ICC stations, and they make up for it by being energy hungry.
D. Fighter bombers are the worst thing you can use, if stations choose to give up fighters for crappy bombers then so be it.
E. A station is an endurance type ship. Trying to occasionally throw stuff at it to wear it out and make it waste ammo isn't possible, however repairs don't matter much if you do spike dps in a short ammount of time.
F. Stations can't avoid trannies trying to capture it and trannies are infinitely better than stations at transporting troops. Stations are mainly used for in combat transports where the enemy blows up regular trannies.
G. 1 build drone repairs extremely slowly and also builds extremely slowly, again only for mid combat use.
The stations only pick tiny parts out of 7 ships, it is bested in all aspects except the battle station in long term dps and the suport station in support and endurance. In turn it is the most immobile ship and if you are too lazy to think of a counter and/or tactic/strategy to beat them then you deserve to be beaten.
Tell you what, what captures systems faster?
10 stations or 1 dico, 3 dreads, 2 trannies, 1 engi, 1 station, and 2 bombers?
In combat 10 stations win, but you can easily avoid them, and capture about everything else they don't camp at.
EDIT: Format error.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-16 23:15
Quote:
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On 2011-04-15 17:51, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
ping has been nerfed so hard it may aswell not even exist.
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400 gu is still very useful. granted its not gonna help you find a luth ship before he attacks you. but it will help ya damage it even more after that ship does his attack run on ya. with the right mix of ships, say dreds and cruisers that 400 range is plenty to ruin a luths day.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-04-16 23:42
First of all.
- AHR only repairs hull. K'luth armor regenerates on its own regardless of AHR.
- AHR does not make you invincible. The rep rate on AHR is less than that of a single rep drone. It's painfully slow. Like def mode, AHR is only really useful after you've retreated from a battle to recuperate.
Next, stations.
Stations are almost a do-it-all class not because of their speed. It's because of their durability and firepower. 6 GU/s is fine. It's not gonna go anywhere fast.
The problem is that they have massive armor and self repair capabilities. Obviously UGTO benefits the most from this. A single station can take on 2 dreads. 2 stations supporting each other can take on 4 or more dreads. Add enhs (Def or plexers) into the mix and they get even more harder to take out.
When there are no real weaknesses (mobility doesn't really count) then it becomes OP. 
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-04-17 00:16
Quote:
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On 2011-04-16 23:15, Borgie (if its red its dead) wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-15 17:51, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
ping has been nerfed so hard it may aswell not even exist.
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400 gu is still very useful. granted its not gonna help you find a luth ship before he attacks you. but it will help ya damage it even more after that ship does his attack run on ya. with the right mix of ships, say dreds and cruisers that 400 range is plenty to ruin a luths day.
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To be clear this was not my statement, but rather a statement I quoted, when formatting I accidentally took away 1 set of quotes.
[ This Message was edited by: SpaceAdmiral on 2011-04-17 00:17 ]
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-04-17 01:56
alright, was pointing out how effective pinging can be to a luth ship.
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