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Drainer |
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
|  Posted: 2011-03-22 22:07
It could stand to lose a couple less beams and gain an aux reactor. I realize the idea behind it is the ELF beams offset not having a reactor but it doesn't work in practice, it ends up out of energy very quickly and no way to regain it aside from cloaking and hiding away from a battle for a very long time, or jumping to friendly space. I even tried firing only the ELF beams at a target and barely gained any energy, they most definitely do not make up for the lack of an aux reactor.
In comparison the Shell and Claw can do comparable damage in the same amount of time from a greater range, and can fight almost indefinitely using cannons and torpedoes. The only uses I can think of for a Drainer are killing Frigates and Scouts, PD for stations, or clearing minefields quickly.....but how often do you see anyone aside from Kluth using mines?
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-22 23:46
Kluth small ships are useless. Always have been, despite them being classed "higher than their human counterparts". Even their cruisers fare the same, except for the Scarab.
Even if they pack a wee bit more bite than their human enemies, their lack of armor ensures that they won't get enough damage in before they have to cloak and break off.
Why do you think most Kluth are in dreads?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-03-23 00:02
Shell, Beak, Nymph, and Talon kick ass and to a lesser extent the Claw kicks ass too. I use the Shell, Beak, and Talon frequently and do very well with them, I'd imagine most Kluth players don't use them because to get the most out of them you need to fly like it was an ICC ship, keep range and use cannons while dodging return fire.
I do fairly well with a Scale too, though that may be largely luck that I don't get shot at as often as the Mandibles/Siphons do.
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Kaepora
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 08, 2011
Posts: 77
| Posted: 2011-03-23 00:42
The drainer hasn't had an update yet. You're better off with a comparable destroyer class.
In capable hands, a dessie can handle what a dread cannot: a fast moving opponent with lots of cannons and good energy usage. A BD can escape mandible range quickly, because K'luth dreads can't move fast without using lots of energy. But a Claw can keep up easily while going slightly above half speed.
It also manuevers better, thus ensuring you'll stay in thier blind spot.
Now, if the drainer still sucks after the cruiser redo, then we'll have a problem. Till then, the drainer is being worked on right now, so the devs have it under control.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-03-23 00:46
Drainer didn't get updated with the rest of the Destroyers? I suppose that would explain it then.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-03-23 02:35
All destroyers were updated back in the late 530 era.
If you noticed, 3 of the 4 K'Luth destroyers do not have a spare generator, so not having a generator is standard for K'Luth destroyers.
And a ship gets more generators than standard only if it is an assault class ship (EAD and AD have 3 instead of 2, and siphon should also have 3). The Claw is, and so it gets a generator for its torpedoes and beams.
If you noticed, the Drainer is a beamboat ship. Like the Picket and Escort destroyers, it does not get generators to avoid spamming beams.
The Human beamboats are for stopping missiles, so they don't need to spam beams. But the drainer is meant to damage ships, so it gets dual ELF beams instead to offset energy deficit. It just needs more skill.
[ This Message was edited by: Boomshot on 2011-03-23 06:56 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-23 03:52
Quote:
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On 2011-03-23 00:02, Talien wrote:
I'd imagine most Kluth players don't use them because to get the most out of them you need to fly like it was an ICC ship, keep range and use cannons while dodging return fire.
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Which is ironic, seeing as how ICC complains that their "long range" characteristics is being bludgeoned by UGTO point jumping them, and Kluth cloaking and evading their missile spam.
In short, the Devs should probably relook the Kluth small ships again.
Reduce beam count, increase cannon count. Do that, and I'll bite. I'll fly them more often.
Right now the only small Kluth ship I'm willing to fly is the Claw. Because it has cannons and torps. Useful against dreads. The beams are complete crap 'cos once you can use them, you get hulled on the way out.
Think about it.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-03-23 07:48
We've been looking at re-balancing beams for a while, fyi. I took a look at ELF a while back - I'll have another look when I get some free time. Right now the dev team doesn't have much free time to work on the game (real life commitments and all that jazz), so updates during this period might be delayed.
Any decent C++ programmers out there who wish to help us maintain and expand this game, send us your application!
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-03-23 10:18
Quote:
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On 2011-03-23 03:52, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Right now the only small Kluth ship I'm willing to fly is the Claw. Because it has cannons and torps. Useful against dreads. The beams are complete crap 'cos once you can use them, you get hulled on the way out.
Think about it.
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Yeah, that's why I mentioned the ships I did, they're all cannon/torp armament, Shell especially with 4x heavy cannons and 3x torps. A Shell with a few weapon multis and a couple speed/turning enh is a sick and evil thing.
Quote:
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On 2011-03-23 07:48, BackSlash wrote:
Any decent C++ programmers out there who wish to help us maintain and expand this game, send us your application! |
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Might want to consider posting that on the news page so more people see it, with all the offers of help with other things I'd like to think chances are pretty good you'd find someone who can do C++.
[ This Message was edited by: Talien on 2011-03-23 10:22 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-03-23 17:17
A few things I would like to note.
Beams do little damage for their energy usage, but buffing it too much will end small ships. Delicate balance.
Large ships favor assault types for their "major dps that only lasts about a minute" mind set. Small ships favor cannons which allows it to dodge and have endurance. (when was the last time you saw a UGTO Assault dessie tackle an enemy dread head on)
Even if kluth get heavy cannon and torp layouts:
1. Torps aren't that accurate and don't punch that hard for their energy usage compared to cannons.
2. The kluth range nerfs way back when means you still have to get close to fire cannons as small ships.
3. Kluth have forward firing, so its hard to dodge and lay down broadsides like a human small ship.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-23 21:50
Quote:
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Why do you think most Kluth are in dreads?
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becuase we are newbs, and all we wanna do is jump in mash space bar and press v,rinse wash repeat
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-23 21:55
also with beams even on luth dreads don't seem to pack the same punch as human beams do. granted i do know ruptors and assualt ruptors have roughly 50 more gu range and no fall off, but there power useage for damage output isn't what it could be. is it possable to have our beams be more engry effiecent or up the damage a bit?
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-03-23 22:08
Borgie, your beams are surprisingly well-balanced compared to the human counter-parts. Bare in mind they do the exact same damage at 50% range, and 75% less at max.
The issue with beams is across the board, and not localised to any one beam or faction.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-24 00:25
Quote:
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On 2011-03-23 21:55, Borgie wrote:
also with beams even on luth dreads don't seem to pack the same punch as human beams do. granted i do know ruptors and assualt ruptors have roughly 50 more gu range and no fall off, but there power useage for damage output isn't what it could be. is it possable to have our beams be more engry effiecent or up the damage a bit?
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The reason why human beams seem to do more damage to us, is because of our tissue-paper armor. Kluth beams may do a bit more damage. But if you face off against a human ship, expect them to outlast you.
So you just cannot outlast an Uggie or ICC in a 1 vs 1 slugfest. That's why I don't believe in dueling in DS. It's just dumb. Unless we have the same ship. Stick to sneak attacks and ganking.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-03-24 09:13
Quote:
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On 2011-03-24 00:25, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
The reason why human beams seem to do more damage to us, is because of our tissue-paper armor. Kluth beams may do a bit more damage. But if you face off against a human ship, expect them to outlast you.
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That's why I keep saying Kluth should have a cannon-heavy Cruiser and Dread, sounds like something perfect for the new Parasite and Krill layouts.
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