| Author |
The simplest, most reasonable way to achieve player balance in the MV |
Brundon
Admiral
Joined: December 09, 2009
Posts: 25
From: Florida
|  Posted: 2011-01-26 14:26
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-25 15:32, Saint Valentine wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-25 14:34, Incendio wrote:
The thing about this is, this would force people to choose a faction. If you're fleetless, and like being fleetless. That leaves those people out. I don't like this idea. This is a big "Oh you're fleetless so we'll just leave you out of the game because you're lower than us.". Yes that's very simple, Indeed.
|
|
It doesn't leave those people out. It forces those people to make a decision. Being fleetless shouldn't be a free ride to play whichever side you feel like in a persistent map. I don't doubt if the NPC factions actually had a voice, they would have QQ'd a long time ago about those damn fleetless traitors that they always seem to let back on when they happen to be winning.
You can either pick a faction if you really like it, and stick with it. Or you can always have at least two factions to choose from, but not the one with the most players on it.
Sounds like a balanced decision to me. Otherwise, why bother joining a fleet? Seems like they kind of get left out to me. They have to live with their decisions. The fleetless don't. Thats kind of a raw deal isn't it?
Its funny that last sentence of yours. That whole "we're better than you" attitude, is kind of the reverse. Since the fleetless can always leave a faction hanging when its doing bad, switch to the other side and hammer on. The ones in the fleet have to live with losing. They have to pay the penalty, why don't you? Why does not being a fleet make you better than them?
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-25 14:10, doda *EP5 no longer exception...* wrote:
But what happens when players dont get to use their upgraded ships due to balance.
|
|
You only play one faction then?
Lock yourself to it, get a guaranteed spot.
Otherwise you probably have upgraded ships on other factions that you play right? Well you get to use them then. I know I do.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Saint Valentine on 2011-01-25 15:33 ]
|
|
Which was my point. You're forcing people to choose. Why do that exactly? You can't force people to do anything.
_________________
|
Brundon
Admiral
Joined: December 09, 2009
Posts: 25
From: Florida
| Posted: 2011-01-26 14:28
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-25 21:45, Snafu (Okkam) wrote:
I'm all for the auto-teams.
Consider first person shooters, the game genre would really suck and fail to compete if they didn't have the autobalance function atleast available.
I like the idea of having the auto-fleet function as a fleetless person myself. I know how to fly most of the ships in all 3 races and own a few in each.
From my point of view the only ones who wouldn't like it would be those with a full hangar of one fleet (Although this would be covered from the orriginal post by joining a fleet) and to be put on the same time as people I dislike or cannot work properly with. (To name no names, you know who you are).
That being said, the last point can be overruled just by choosing the 2nd fleet option.
I vote for this, if only to stop the 7+ krill fleets vs 2 icc stations and a combat dread.... made me rage so much
|
|
This isn't a first person shooter though. MV is this way because it's not a scenario, and it shouldn't have auto-teams in it. The whole point of that is to have un-balanced teams. To have it where you actually have to WORK for it. I see this whole thing as people being lazy.
_________________
|
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-01-26 17:40
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-26 10:43, Lark (Retired) wrote:
B) find a way to improve dynamic balancing. a simple bandaid solution would to be to dramatically increase the number of AI dreadnaughts that spawn for the low-population faction. they wouldnt be smart but the addition of pure firepower might balance things out. another would be a damage and repair buff to the low-population faction or similar or complementary handicap to the over-populated faction. another possibility would be all ship upgrades deactiviating for the highest-populated faction.
|
|
Spawning more AI dreads encourages farming, and will encourage faction hopping to the highest-pop faction to recieve free pres.
This can be solved by somehow making them give a lot less pres, or maybe have them have elite layouts but not drop enhancements.
_________________
|
Dorans imaginary buddy
Admiral
Joined: February 05, 2010
Posts: 24
| Posted: 2011-01-26 21:11
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-26 11:02, Chewy Squirrel {om nom nom nom nom} wrote:
How about having a certain optional "faction" that players can opt into that always gets them assigned to the lowest population faction. These mercenaries would be forced to always join the underpopulated faction. Once a player opts into being a mercenary they cannot opt out for an extended period of time, say maybe a month.
An opt in system of auto-balance would be met with much less resistance and QQ than a blanket forced auto-balance.
Of course there would have to be incentives in order for anybody to opt into being a mercenary. A few options: A 10% bonus to prestige, additional garage slots(to account for the fact that they can get assigned to any of the 3 factions), Higher enchancement drop rate, lower enchancement degradation on death, 10% increase to firepower.
|
|
smart i give this a +1
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-01-26 23:17
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-26 17:40, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Spawning more AI dreads encourages farming, and will encourage faction hopping to the highest-pop faction to recieve free pres.
This can be solved by somehow making them give a lot less pres, or maybe have them have elite layouts but not drop enhancements.
|
|
That's cos AI dreads are as dumb as doornails right now.
AI always has their beams on PD, and take potshots at you. Someone needs to recode them!
A reworked algorithm could go like:
PD off. Fire all cannons outside of beam range.
When they get within beam range, ALPHA till energy is at 20%, then back off with sporadic cannon fire to recharge and attack again.
Jump out when hulled at 50%.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Phellan
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 27, 2007
Posts: 220
From: Red Light District
| Posted: 2011-01-27 01:19
I really like this idea and I don't see how its in any way forcing people to choose. Read his arguments again, they cover all sides pretty well.
Forgive me if it was already mentioned in the last page or two but my only suggestion is to not have this take effect unless the population is over a certain number. If theres only four people playing total, its silly to 'force' them, because thats when the whining will start. Beyond that, your logic seems unassailable.
The only hitch would be if the imbalance is because, for example, ugto fleets have higher numbers than icc fleets. Then this wouldn't help at all. I haven't been on recently because of computer trouble so I don't know how common fleetless new players are...but once upon a time they were really uncommon because whatever fleet was dominating the faction quickly recruited them.
[ This Message was edited by: JWA8402 on 2011-01-27 01:22 ]
_________________
Noob you say? I may fly an escort destroyer...but I just stayed at a Holiday Inn.
|
Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-01-27 01:43
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-26 23:17, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-26 17:40, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Spawning more AI dreads encourages farming, and will encourage faction hopping to the highest-pop faction to recieve free pres.
This can be solved by somehow making them give a lot less pres, or maybe have them have elite layouts but not drop enhancements.
|
|
That's cos AI dreads are as dumb as doornails right now.
AI always has their beams on PD, and take potshots at you. Someone needs to recode them!
A reworked algorithm could go like:
PD off. Fire all cannons outside of beam range.
When they get within beam range, ALPHA till energy is at 20%, then back off with sporadic cannon fire to recharge and attack again.
Jump out when hulled at 50%.
|
|
+1
Seems like the AI just runs straight at you until you hull it, then it ceases fire and runs away and stops shooting. You can deal with AI hoardes by shooting them once and then moving to the next, it's like they're scared of taking ANY damage.
Those robots are cowards!
_________________
Indictor: 1. To accuse of wrongdoing
Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
|
Bombg
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2011-01-27 11:36
Here's an idea I just had.
Turn on auto balance for everyone including people in clans. If someone wants access to a certain faction that's currently full make them pay for a reserve slot. Then switch a non reserved person to the faction that needs the extra player.
More balance and extra dough for the game.
_________________
|
Brundon
Admiral
Joined: December 09, 2009
Posts: 25
From: Florida
| Posted: 2011-01-27 13:23
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-27 11:36, Bombg wrote:
Here's an idea I just had.
Turn on auto balance for everyone including people in clans. If someone wants access to a certain faction that's currently full make them pay for a reserve slot. Then switch a non reserved person to the faction that needs the extra player.
More balance and extra dough for the game.
|
|
That I like.
_________________
|
The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2011-01-27 16:29
If you split (Fleets) clans up, what would be the point of them...
_________________
|
Koba
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 309
From: United States of America
| Posted: 2011-01-27 16:37
none of ther mods or admins have taken the time to reply to this so dont get your hopes up :]
_________________
|
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-01-27 17:47
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-27 11:36, Bombg wrote:
Here's an idea I just had.
Turn on auto balance for everyone including people in clans. If someone wants access to a certain faction that's currently full make them pay for a reserve slot. Then switch a non reserved person to the faction that needs the extra player.
More balance and extra dough for the game.
|
|
Great. This reminds me of those browser games literally milking a dying playerbase.
Now, dedicated faction players HAVE to pay to play, fleets get split up, no fleets except for those paying, no enhancements because you might not get you faction.
While we're at it maybe we should make it so we have to pay to gain pres, and we have weekly wipes. Sound good?
_________________
|
Bombg
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2011-01-27 23:17
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-27 16:29, The Fridge wrote:
If you split (Fleets) clans up, what would be the point of them...
|
|
There's a lot of games where there's auto balance but clans seem to do fine in them.
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-27 17:47, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Great. This reminds me of those browser games literally milking a dying playerbase.
Now, dedicated faction players HAVE to pay to play, fleets get split up, no fleets except for those paying, no enhancements because you might not get you faction.
While we're at it maybe we should make it so we have to pay to gain pres, and we have weekly wipes. Sound good?
|
|
auto balance was in effect back when most of the player base played on the admiral server and some of the clans from then seem to be around. So I think you're being a little melodramatic here.
[ This Message was edited by: Bombg on 2011-01-27 23:29 ]
_________________
|
Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2011-01-28 08:00
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-27 23:17, Bombg wrote:
There's a lot of games where there's auto balance but clans seem to do fine in them. |
|
Games with persistent MMO servers?
_________________
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-01-28 08:25
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-28 08:00, Sops wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-01-27 23:17, Bombg wrote:
There's a lot of games where there's auto balance but clans seem to do fine in them. |
|
Games with persistent MMO servers?
|
|
This is the point though.
Ganes with persistent MMO servers force players to make a choice even before they get through creating their character. And if not then, somewhere along the line.
DS is really unique in how it lets people stay unaligned in a persistent universe. Really, really, really unique. Especially in a persitent universe whose entire mechanics depend on the balance of three persistent factions.
I don't mind people wanting to be fleetless, but I think they should be held to the same restrictions as the people in fleets, or at least something close to it. In a persistent game with mechanics in place to preserve balance, why do we neglect balance in terms of player numbers? This is the real imbalance. Battles with equal sides are infinitely more fun and turn more often into a stalemate (thus proving balance) than imbalanced players. Quality matters, but numbers beat out quality.
Its fair, it means that people can choose to join fleets for a reason, and bring back the MV from the sandbox. I think the MV should be a real persistent server with real loyalties. If you want to play other factions, play a scenario. If you want to really contribute to a faction and where it matters to you and where you have a damn stake in it, I think it matters.
People care a whole lot more about their planets when they know they're screwed if they don't defend them. People care more about each other if they play with them, instead of the isolationist attitude that fleetless people have in a teamwork centric game. This support boggles my mind.
In scenario, it shouldn't matter. Anything goes, you're doing it just for fun. But the MV is a persistent server, and if anything that other MMOs show us, persistent servers show their appeal by being continuous, evolving, and theres not just a reset button at the end of the round. Its the fact that your actions count and the successes matter. The MV lacks this immensely.
Hell, my idea is generous compared to what I would really want, for people to have to choose a faction immediately upon entering the MV (and the MV requiring a minimum rank of like Captain). And to be locked to that faction for at least a month, fleetless or not.
But even my "extremist" ideas are pretty generous compared to MMOs that force you to choose sides from the beginning, not even letting you experience to the other side. Or forcing you to choose and never letting you go back.
If DS ever wants to be a real MMO it needs to act more like one, rather than a backwards action space shooter that holds a niche for people with short attention spans.
-Ent
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
