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The simplest, most reasonable way to achieve player balance in the MV |
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
|  Posted: 2011-01-23 07:24
This post was misleading and contradictory enough that I felt the need to address it.
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On 2011-01-23 04:53, Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ] wrote:
Well i think its a bad idea. Simple because some of the "fleetless" players hate some factions and simple just dont want to play on it. It will become a bigger problem whit this.
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This logic fails. It cannot, in any scope of the sense, can a person be left choiceless in this situation.
If you hate two factions, for example, then you probably only play on one faction. This only makes sense. You hate two factions. You pick the one left over. Otherwise you wouldn't play the game if you hated every faction.
Thus, you're probably in a fleet for that faction, and thus, always have that spot. Incase people really care that much about wanting to not be a part of a fleet, a fleetless player can sign up with the faction itself, and be locked to it, and would be able to change which faction ithey're locked to the same as fleets.
Also, if a player only hates one faction, he is only guranteed to be locked out of one other. That still leaves one choice. Too often I've heard the excuse "well I don't feel like playing this faction right now" only to hop to the side thats not surprisingly, winning. So I don't think thats a very valid argument to make.
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Would be much better if the rewards of beein in a fleet is bigger. So we dont have so many fleetless players.
Fleetless players should also be locked into a faction for a week when first chosing one.
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This is where there is so much contradiction in these two statements...
See first you say, not having choice is bad, but then you suggest at the fleetless players shouldn't get a choice at *all* after chosing a faction.
Then you say the rewards for a fleet should be bigger, well there you go. My idea is a reward for being a fleet. You get to fly the faction you want, whenever you want. I mean if you love that faction enough, you'll stick through the bad and good times right?
Right?
My idea is reasonable enough and still allows plenty of choice. It simply operates on the principle that the winning side shouldn't be joined by more winning players unless they are **loyal** to that faction.
Gives plenty of incentive to join fleets.
Also with this, I think that when you leave a fleet, you are penalized. You cannot join another fleet for a month.
Loyalty and Fleets should matter. Thats a reward in in itself.
-Ent
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The_Enforcer (The Vindicator)
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 05, 2010
Posts: 163
From: another dimension
| Posted: 2011-01-23 08:43
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On 2011-01-23 04:41, chlorophyll wrote:
The problem is:
[*]RSM is always crowded.
[sarcasm]How about we limit fleet players instead of fleetless?[/sarcasm]
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The reason we have an overcrowded playerbase in our fleet is because people make it like RSM is the upper hand to UGTO and without RSM, UGTO would be nothing. but from that statement, alot of people join out fleet
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Problem Darkspace?
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2011-01-23 12:19
One of the major problems with factionhoppers is that some of them make alot of trouble in the mv, shouting and arguing the whole time. My opinion is that this will increase if you make an "auto-ballance"
I do not think the auto ballance is a good option to go since it will never be ballanced this way. You spesific said that it was numbers, so in other words if theres five cheif marsal on one side, and five ensing on the other. It will still be unballanced. Of course it will never be this numbers but it will happen in some way.
The other thing is that alot of ppl go "AFK" or "Idle" in the MV. I and alot of other ppl often go away from the game to do other things. Sometimes for hours, how are you goining to balance that?
As far as rewarding ppl in fleet, and make fleetless stick with one faction say a week, is off topic of course. I mentioned this because this is something i feel should be inplented. (my 2cents)
I could mention more about this, but obvisuly this aint a point since its off topic as you mentioned.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-01-23 21:14
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On 2011-01-23 04:41, chlorophyll wrote:
The problem is:
[*]PB is busy with other games.
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ROFL. Damned true.
At first I was wondering where most of my PB bros went. And then I went the same way too. 
My latest craze: Fallout: New Vegas on the PC, GT5/FF XIII on the PS3! 
Now 1.6 is out. Gotta come back and try it soon. 
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2011-01-24 09:09
I believe all players, but new players especially should be free to decide which faction they want to play as and there is no good argument for forcing people to join a fleet.
I would rather see a dynamic system like Planet Side where the team with the highest numbers got a slight nerf and the team with the least got a slight buff based on the numbers currently in the server.
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-01-24 14:41
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On 2011-01-24 09:09, Sops wrote:
I believe all players, but new players especially should be free to decide which faction they want to play as and there is no good argument for forcing people to join a fleet.
I would rather see a dynamic system like Planet Side where the team with the highest numbers got a slight nerf and the team with the least got a slight buff based on the numbers currently in the server.
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Like bonuses to repair rate? Or damage? I'd personally go for repair rate (after being damaged, they come back sooner, wearing down an enemy) .
A prestige increase would be iffy. Vets don't play for prestige, only new people do. Lot's of new people would shift the prestige bonus back to neutral, without actually giving any hard hitting ships to the losing side.
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Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2011-01-24 16:54
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On 2011-01-22 13:43, James 296 wrote:
I like and dislike this idea at the same time. I personally like being on the winning side and who doesn't. |
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this is the reason were currently have the problem, when a side start to win, the other switch to that side as they wish, leaving 1 faciton with very few, to none player vs a blob
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-01-24 17:38
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On 2011-01-24 09:09, Sops wrote:
I believe all players, but new players especially should be free to decide which faction they want to play as and there is no good argument for forcing people to join a fleet.
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There is no "force".
Under the idea, you have three options:
You can either stay fleetless, and lock yourself to one faction so you can always fly that faction. You can change your faction once every seven days.
Stay fleetless, and only have guranteed access to two facitons, the kicker being you can't be on the faction with the most players.
Join a fleet, and be locked to that fleets faction.
There is plenty of choice. The idea is to prevent people from hopping to winning side.
New players shouldn't even be starting in the MV. They have scenario to play around with all the factions (which happens to be auto-balance, go figure).
Plenty of choice, plenty of balance. All it prevents is the fleetless (which is the biggest majority of players in DS) from always joining the winning side. If the winning side happens to be your favorite faction, then well lock yourself to it, or join a fleet that is always on that faction.
If you like all factions pretty equally, stay fleetless, and wind up playing whichever side doesn't have the most players. This doesn't neccessarily put you on the side with the least players, just less than the side with the most. This can be a one player difference, or a ten player difference. This is your penalty for playing the solo hopper. You play the underdog.
This encourages people to play fleets and to remain more dedicated to one faction. And prevents the abuse of people forming what I like to call the blob.
The blob is what happens when one side starts winning. Not wanting to lose more prestige, the astute fleelless faction hopper hops to the winning side and imbalances the MV more. No matter what people argue, numerical superiority beats tactics outright. A large force, no matter how stupid, will win just because of overwhelming firepower.
This continues up until the point everyone is on one faction and there is no competition. Who the hell is going to bother to try and defend planets when its 5 vs 25? Theres no chance. This isn't 1.480 where skill could make a difference in that situation. You're screwed, you might as well log, or just join their side (which is what people do).
This has to stop. I can't find a legitimate argument that would not benefit the game as a whole to have some kind of balancing mechanism in the MV to keep the playerbase even and have some kind of competition. There is little fun in an MV where there is no combat, and thats what happens when one side gets too top heavy. There must be limits, as much as we hate them, if everyone is to have a shot at having fun without always having to fly the faction that has the most people on it so that they don't die.
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On 2011-01-22 13:43, James 296 wrote:
I like and dislike this idea at the same time. I personally like being on the winning side and who doesn't. |
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Most players think this way. I think its about time the winning side is what players make it out to be, instead of just dogpiling into one faction when its on a roll. It might actually make them care about their faction more, and value the planets they have more, if they know that if they don't do their part they lose everything.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Saint Valentine on 2011-01-24 17:40 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-01-24 17:46
Scenario is mostly dead. You can hop in a frigate/scout and pop a few AIs or maybe players there for bombing/building/capture pres, but not for long term combat or supping.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-24 21:08
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On 2011-01-24 17:38, Saint Valentine wrote:
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On 2011-01-24 09:09, Sops wrote:
I believe all players, but new players especially should be free to decide which faction they want to play as and there is no good argument for forcing people to join a fleet.
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There is no "force".
Under the idea, you have three options:
You can either stay fleetless, and lock yourself to one faction so you can always fly that faction. You can change your faction once every seven days.
Stay fleetless, and only have guranteed access to two facitons, the kicker being you can't be on the faction with the most players.
Join a fleet, and be locked to that fleets faction.
There is plenty of choice. The idea is to prevent people from hopping to winning side.
New players shouldn't even be starting in the MV. They have scenario to play around with all the factions (which happens to be auto-balance, go figure).
Plenty of choice, plenty of balance. All it prevents is the fleetless (which is the biggest majority of players in DS) from always joining the winning side. If the winning side happens to be your favorite faction, then well lock yourself to it, or join a fleet that is always on that faction.
If you like all factions pretty equally, stay fleetless, and wind up playing whichever side doesn't have the most players. This doesn't neccessarily put you on the side with the least players, just less than the side with the most. This can be a one player difference, or a ten player difference. This is your penalty for playing the solo hopper. You play the underdog.
This encourages people to play fleets and to remain more dedicated to one faction. And prevents the abuse of people forming what I like to call the blob.
The blob is what happens when one side starts winning. Not wanting to lose more prestige, the astute fleelless faction hopper hops to the winning side and imbalances the MV more. No matter what people argue, numerical superiority beats tactics outright. A large force, no matter how stupid, will win just because of overwhelming firepower.
This continues up until the point everyone is on one faction and there is no competition. Who the hell is going to bother to try and defend planets when its 5 vs 25? Theres no chance. This isn't 1.480 where skill could make a difference in that situation. You're screwed, you might as well log, or just join their side (which is what people do).
This has to stop. I can't find a legitimate argument that would not benefit the game as a whole to have some kind of balancing mechanism in the MV to keep the playerbase even and have some kind of competition. There is little fun in an MV where there is no combat, and thats what happens when one side gets too top heavy. There must be limits, as much as we hate them, if everyone is to have a shot at having fun without always having to fly the faction that has the most people on it so that they don't die.
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On 2011-01-22 13:43, James 296 wrote:
I like and dislike this idea at the same time. I personally like being on the winning side and who doesn't. |
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Most players think this way. I think its about time the winning side is what players make it out to be, instead of just dogpiling into one faction when its on a roll. It might actually make them care about their faction more, and value the planets they have more, if they know that if they don't do their part they lose everything.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Saint Valentine on 2011-01-24 17:40 ]
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+1
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-01-24 23:36
People always join the winnings side? People all join the strongest faction? Quick way to fix it then: balance kluth .
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Indictor: 1. To accuse of wrongdoing
Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2011-01-25 03:47
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On 2011-01-24 23:36, Reznor wrote:
People always join the winnings side? People all join the strongest faction? Quick way to fix it then: balance kluth .
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this isnt about balance.
its about the amount of people on a faction.
the factions are not out of balance with each other. The one factor that has always been is the amount of people playing is generally what makes a side win. Also lets not make this yet anouther nerf kluth post.
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-01-25 03:51
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On 2011-01-25 03:47, Necrotic wrote:
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On 2011-01-24 23:36, Reznor wrote:
People always join the winnings side? People all join the strongest faction? Quick way to fix it then: balance kluth .
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this isnt about balance.
its about the amount of people on a faction.
the factions are not out of balance with each other. The one factor that has always been is the amount of people playing is generally what makes a side win. Also lets not make this yet anouther nerf kluth post.
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when is it not a nerf kluth post for every post thats related to game balance.
to be honest that gets old
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2011-01-25 11:37
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On 2011-01-25 03:47, Necrotic wrote:
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On 2011-01-24 23:36, Reznor wrote:
People always join the winnings side? People all join the strongest faction? Quick way to fix it then: balance kluth .
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this isnt about balance.
its about the amount of people on a faction.
the factions are not out of balance with each other. The one factor that has always been is the amount of people playing is generally what makes a side win. Also lets not make this yet anouther nerf kluth post.
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yes lets not. besides k'luth are fine as is except for their ships needing a slight design update (meh, it can go on the back burner).
anyway I love how Ent said there's no "force", well your wrong about that as your "forcing" them to make a choice. And Personally I like my "Freedom of choice". Not only are you "forcing" unfleeted members to make a choice but you will also start seeing people bouncing between Fleeted and Unfleeted just so they can play "that one" faction.
P.S. I don't know about you folks but this idea is starting look like a "Rage" topic then anything else.
P.S.S. I'm unfleeted because I can't decide which faction I like more, ICC (I like their shields ) or UGTO (I like the the unlimited ammo ). plus I like to get a good laugh every now & again, that's why I go K'Luth .
[ This Message was edited by: James 296 on 2011-01-25 11:40 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-01-25 11:55
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On 2011-01-25 11:37, James 296 wrote:
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On 2011-01-25 03:47, Necrotic wrote:
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On 2011-01-24 23:36, Reznor wrote:
People always join the winnings side? People all join the strongest faction? Quick way to fix it then: balance kluth .
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this isnt about balance.
its about the amount of people on a faction.
the factions are not out of balance with each other. The one factor that has always been is the amount of people playing is generally what makes a side win. Also lets not make this yet anouther nerf kluth post.
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yes lets not. besides k'luth are fine as is except for their ships needing a slight design update (meh, it can go on the back burner).
anyway I love how Ent said there's no "force", well your wrong about that as your "forcing" them to make a choice. And Personally I like my "Freedom of choice". Not only are you "forcing" unfleeted members to make a choice but you will also start seeing people bouncing between Fleeted and Unfleeted just so they can play "that one" faction.
P.S. I don't know about you folks but this idea is starting look like a "Rage" topic then anything else.
P.S.S. I'm unfleeted because I can't decide which faction I like more, ICC (I like their shields ) or UGTO (I like the the unlimited ammo ). plus I like to get a good laugh every now & again, that's why I go K'Luth .
[ This Message was edited by: Saint Valentine on 2011-01-25 11:59 ]
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Wow, I'm making people commit to something in Darkspace? Unheard of.
The single biggest imbalance in the game are uneven sides. Someone has to make up the difference in the MV. There isn't any fun in a game where one side has so many more players as to be undefeatable. You just drive people to hop to that faction.
You want to see anything limiting choice as something that infringes on your freedom of choice, which it does nothing of the sort. If so many people claim to really love to play so many factions, then they shouldn't have any problem being locked out of one because it has too many players. They have two other factions to play with.
And lets just say for an moment that faction just happened to be the one they really wanted to play at the moment. What are the odds? Well every faction is balanced apparently. There's nothing wrong with them. So you pretty much get locked out 1/3rd of the time of one faction, and further again, you probably only want to play that faction one third of the time if someone really claims to love all factions, so thats pretty much just being locked out of what you really want to play 1/9th of the time.
One out of every time you play, you wont get to play the faction you want to. Thats pretty long odds, for people who like playing multiple factions.
And no matter what, you wil always have the option of playing at least one faction you like.
If you really like one faction but don't want to join a fleet, fine. Let people lock themselves to a faction the same way fleets do.
If you don't want commitment, go to scenario. MV is a persistent universe where loyalty should matter and people really caring about their faction would make a difference that hasn't been seen in a while because people just hop when they start to lose. Because MV is persistent, so should too people's loyalties. I doubt realistically if there were three factions they would so easily let people unaligned join them right back just after they left them to kill them. Thats just retarded.
I've met too many people who say that they just like to play different factions, but are nowhere to be found when that side starts losing. And amazing reappear on the enemy side! This makes percieved inbalances bigger (Kluth gets hammered that they are hugely imbalanced when all they really have is just too many faction hoppers), and leads to the other side logging off because theres no point to fighting an unwinnable battle.
I think its time for some rules for the MV. Its the main server. It shouldn't be a free for all.
-Ent
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