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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
|  Posted: 2010-10-31 18:53
Somehow i find it strange that ppl cant read in here..i think ive said it tre times already..hit has nothing to do with Flash, hes just an example...
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLASH!
GET IT?
Lets try one more time.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLASH!
Mkay?
What it do have something to do with is that its basically just really really really easy to get prestige in this game.
And then for the last time!
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLASH!
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-10-31 19:09
Tommas is correct. Flash is just one of the many examples of how prestige gain is far too high currently. I have already made steps to reduce it next patch by 50% of what it currently is.
Try and remember that why I'm talking about big numers, it's already at 0.5% of the points you get when you do hull damage. We will keep lowering the percentage until we get to a comfortable place. We had originally intended it to be only 1% (we started at 20%), and are now below what we originally figured would be enough.
Whilst it is too high, I would personally rather not make sweeping changes to the way in which prestige is gained, and I will slowly lower the rate of which prestige is gained from doing damage to armour and shields until prestige gain is back where it should be.
That being said, if this doesn't solve it, I'm going to add a few 0's before the number to see just how far we have to go to get there.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-10-31 23:25
if it had nothing to do with flash you should have never mentioned him
you said he was an example of high pres gain
we defended by saying he plays well
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Painfulangel
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 188
From: Exathra
| Posted: 2010-10-31 23:35
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On 2010-10-31 19:09, BackSlash wrote:
Tommas is correct. Flash is just one of the many examples of how prestige gain is far too high currently. I have already made steps to reduce it next patch by 50% of what it currently is.
Try and remember that why I'm talking about big numers, it's already at 0.5% of the points you get when you do hull damage. We will keep lowering the percentage until we get to a comfortable place. We had originally intended it to be only 1% (we started at 20%), and are now below what we originally figured would be enough.
Whilst it is too high, I would personally rather not make sweeping changes to the way in which prestige is gained, and I will slowly lower the rate of which prestige is gained from doing damage to armour and shields until prestige gain is back where it should be.
That being said, if this doesn't solve it, I'm going to add a few 0's before the number to see just how far we have to go to get there.
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the only problem i think is that if your a midshipman and it takes u a month to rank up to ensign they would get bored fast and DS will loose some players, i think it should go no more higher than 50% as you said
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2010-11-01 01:26
Quote:
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On 2010-10-31 19:09, BackSlash wrote:
Tommas is correct. Flash is just one of the many examples of how prestige gain is far too high currently. I have already made steps to reduce it next patch by 50% of what it currently is.
Try and remember that why I'm talking about big numers, it's already at 0.5% of the points you get when you do hull damage. We will keep lowering the percentage until we get to a comfortable place. We had originally intended it to be only 1% (we started at 20%), and are now below what we originally figured would be enough.
Whilst it is too high, I would personally rather not make sweeping changes to the way in which prestige is gained, and I will slowly lower the rate of which prestige is gained from doing damage to armour and shields until prestige gain is back where it should be.
That being said, if this doesn't solve it, I'm going to add a few 0's before the number to see just how far we have to go to get there.
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I think 0.5% is almost nothing.
Isn't it time to reduce hull damage pres?
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2010-11-01 01:54
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On 2010-11-01 01:26, Lithium wrote:
I think 0.5% is almost nothing.
Isn't it time to reduce hull damage pres?
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Something like this, lowering armor prestige only screws up those who can't pull out powerful ships. Dreads tear into each others hulls within seconds getting the best part of combat prestige very fast. Smaller ships can't do this and stick to only getting the 0.5%.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-01 03:03
Quote:
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On 2010-11-01 01:54, Gerlach wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-11-01 01:26, Lithium wrote:
I think 0.5% is almost nothing.
Isn't it time to reduce hull damage pres?
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Something like this, lowering armor prestige only screws up those who can't pull out powerful ships. Dreads tear into each others hulls within seconds getting the best part of combat prestige very fast. Smaller ships can't do this and stick to only getting the 0.5%.
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Actually, once you've gotten your dreads, lowering prestige becomes a moot point. You've already gotten your dread.... it's DreadSpace, which is the problem in the first place.
Let's face it. It's not about ranks at all. It's about the ship population. In DS, rank = the ships you can fly. Too many high-rankers = too many big ships. THAT is the crux of the issue isn't it? It's not so much of a rank problem, FFS.
It makes no sense to reduce pres gain for big ship drivers. It makes no sense. But then, we can't also implement mechanisms which makes getting a dread unfairly difficult (all in the name of reducing dread population).
Pres gains has got to be uniform across all ranks and ships, and based on damage.
There're only a few ways to go about it, and even then it still won't be easy to find a balance point either.
1. Find the best balance for pres gains.
Right now combat pres is just too high. If we take away pres gains from armor/shield damage, noobs are gonna find it so difficult to level up that they might just quit.
An alternative is to lower pres for combat, and increase pres gains elsewhere. Supping, Bombing, Building, and even give things like mining, scouting, and dictoring pres??
2. Rewrite the entire badge/pres requirements for ships.
What are M and CM for? Can we move ships up a tier or 2?
Increase badge requirements? How will this affect current high rankers (like myself @ GA with nothing else to work for), and will they QQ abt it? 
3. Make small ships more powerful. Increase pres loss for dreads and above.
People are always saying, make the small ships more attractive to use.
Well .... in DS, POWER is attractive. We can give them more gadgets, give them new models, but in the end if they do the same thing, dish out the same damage, and die in the same horrible way from the bigger ships, it all comes back to the same old crap. No one who can fly a dread will want to fly them.
Ships like the ICC MF was a good example of a usable small ship that got nerfed by the Devs caving in to the vet's QQ (of all the bloody things....) about their stations being pwned.
If we make it such that 2 cruisers, or 3 dessies, or 4 frigates can take down or do damage to a single dread in the same way that a 1 vs 1 dread battle will go, then smaller ships will become attractive. And this time you big ship/station pilots and vets.... pls shut up and don't QQ about it.
Let's face it, until the small ships become more attractive, the smallest combat ship I'm flying is my cruiser. And who knows, one day someone might just QQ about the game being CruiserSpace.....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2010-11-01 03:13 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-11-01 06:37
Prestige gain is super high entirely due to that 0.5%. Armour hp values are much higher than hull due to game mechanics and natural resistances.
Lowering hull prestige will do nothing, as almost all prestige currently is gained through doing armour/shield damage. Lowering it fixes this.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-01 07:18
Quote:
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On 2010-11-01 06:37, BackSlash wrote:
Prestige gain is super high entirely due to that 0.5%. Armour hp values are much higher than hull due to game mechanics and natural resistances.
Lowering hull prestige will do nothing, as almost all prestige currently is gained through doing armour/shield damage. Lowering it fixes this.
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Probably. But it doesn't directly address the real crux of the issue. And that is the population of dreads n stations. We talk rank, but what we're really talking abt is the current state of gameplay.
You can slow down the rate of new dread pilots, but it will still come to the point where 80% of the ships fielded will be dreads n stations.
Make smaller ships more effective (read as: more powerful), Jack.
That's what it will take to change the gameplay. If u don't want to consider class limits, then at least try this route out.
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TheHunter
Marshal
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 257
From: 3rd Star from the Left and keep going till Morning
| Posted: 2010-11-01 07:40
Erm small ships are Effective "IF" you get real pilots a good pilot in a small ship A. Doesnt get hit if at all and B. can make a laughing stock of a dread so yes piloting skills in smaller ships
[ This Message was edited by: TheHunter on 2010-11-01 07:42 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-01 09:24
Quote:
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On 2010-11-01 07:40, TheHunter wrote:
Erm small ships are Effective "IF" you get real pilots a good pilot in a small ship A. Doesnt get hit if at all and B. can make a laughing stock of a dread so yes piloting skills in smaller ships
[ This Message was edited by: TheHunter on 2010-11-01 07:42 ]
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Yes that's true. But the guys in small ships r mostly newbies who get murdered.
Given equal players, 2 cruisers would have quite a hard time killing a dread without the help of a dictor.
I'm not suggesting a massive boost. A weapons upgrade (not armor/shield) would make them more effective against bigger ships. The fact of the matter is that cheap-to-lose and more-effective equals more attractive to use. It's simple economics.
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-11-01 09:35
.....will people stop complaining about the mf being nerfed. you know i hate flying a dread but i also dont think one or two frigate should be able to take out a dread in a few hits, HOWEVER i do agree that the need up on power or somthing to make them more useful all they had to do was lower the damage just a bit not completly nerf them out. they do need to do something with small ships and the mf was a good baby step in that direction
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-11-01 18:15
make extreme assault dessies, t2 ship. Has to get close in so it requires skill. Will get pwned by cruisers, dreads, and stations if used incorrectly.
-Basically a dessie for a high rank with a lot of torps. This also prevents use against smaller ships who can evade torps.
-Same armor as a regular dessie so you will need skill to weave through enemy fire, or get killed before you reach your target.
-Increased res loss from a dessie since it is more powerful and can gain pres faster.
OR
--Also an idea might be to make the torp/assault/scale cruiser a "super cruiser" like how the EAD, AD, and siphon (if you don't count krill) are "super dreads" with more armor and hull level.--
--Above idea could apply to Assault dessie, claw, and probably a new icc dessie that resembles an assault ship--
Finally 2 more ideas
---Torpedo bombers that could replace fighters (i know its been put forth and denied before)---
---make Mirvs, Telekenetic bombs, and fighter bombs do significant damage to ships. They move slow enough to be evaded by anything but stations and dreads, and low ammo count will make it not too powerful---
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-11-02 12:47
Ranking system needs to be revised,rather then the simple "Twice as much pres as before"rule.
After a certain point the time taken to get from one rank to another decreases!
Need to make it so this can't happen, especially after 1st RA.
(Probably more appropriate for the dread/station thread but cba to find it and the solution is the same for both)
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2010-11-02 12:49 ]
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2010-11-02 12:49 ]
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Thugomatic
Chief Marshal
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 166
From: Missoula Montana
| Posted: 2010-11-02 13:52
I have an idear here may be dumb as it may not directly solve the problem but here it is.
first thing drop all armor/shield strength down to 20 percent of there current damage deflection.
second thing drop torpedoes down too 25 percent of there current damage output. All the rest of the weapons drop down to 20 percent of there damage output. Somehow though keep all AOE weapon splash damage at the same radius.
In the end a person will still get the same pres for killing a ship but it would take longer too happen.
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