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Okay the best solution to overpopulation of dreads and stations is... |
deathblave
Marshal
Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 268
|  Posted: 2010-10-25 18:25
t2 ships whouldty be hard to implement just bring the moding system to use on click on a hc in ship select if u have saied bagde to use it u select the t2 version and it allows u to remove stuff on and off the ship like u remove the lasers off and replace them with rails but it slows the ship and turn rate dowin badly wich brings it into balance so it whould hurt ships of the same class but be boned if a t1 dread point jumped it also put a cap on how may of saied deveice can be removed and swich with another.
keep modding to cruiser class and below because in war u dont build a high tech ship that can be hit with a car at long range smaller class ships whould then be more used at that point
but its an idea
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The_Enforcer (The Vindicator)
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 05, 2010
Posts: 163
From: another dimension
| Posted: 2010-10-25 19:10
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On 2010-10-25 15:44, lulzypulzy*STEAK!!* wrote:
idea. no stations or dreds unless 5 people on each faction. fixed.
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no, no, no, thats a terrible idea, no offense, but what about all the times where there is an unbalanced amount of ppl on one team aganst the other?
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Problem Darkspace?
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-10-25 19:27
he did said EACh faction, meanign ALL faction has to have at least 5 players.
I guess its better than 1 player/dread Vs 12 player/ dreads and stations
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-10-25 20:30
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On 2010-10-25 17:31, The Evil God of the Fire Cloud wrote:
Perhaps restriction the max amount of dreads/ stations allowed in MV on each 7 servers i.e. only a maxium of 4 dreads /2 stations are allowed in Sagittarius server for each faction.
Or add an ingame kill count for ship requisition i.e. like in Modern Warfare 2, u get to use Support Powers from 3 consecutive kill (UAV) to 25 consecutive kill (Nuke)(kill count resets if killed, SD, planet collision or anything that involves ur ship blowing up).
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Hard cap. Class limits.
Have suggested them all.
Vets don't like it. Everyone talks about their rights to fly big ships.
The only other thing I can think of is ship population controlled by resources or some kind of "ship points" system.... whereby the ship you pull out costs a certain number of points for your faction. And you only have a limited number of points, depending on the number of players aboard.
Oh yeah.... removing weapons levelling too. If the same type of weaps on smaller ships do the same damage as those mounted on the heavier ships.... heh... trust me. More ppl will hop into them.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2010-10-25 20:57 ]
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tucker32
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 16, 2009
Posts: 141
From: deep jungle of vargo
| Posted: 2010-10-25 22:42
i think we have scouts with weapons that dread ships have and are recently being used by a fleet of Ticks and have been doing a good jub as of recently i've actually tried it with a ugto and did somewhat of a good job i still need to learn a few things but its quite easy to do hit n run attacks
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-10-25 22:49
Agree, Badge requirements need to go up.
Disagree with it being increased by a factor of (insert number).
Should cater to how easy the stat is to obtain.
Gold Combat could go up to something like 5-10 times.
But transportation would be a requirement that i personally wouldn't like to see go up to the same degree.
Etc.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-10-25 22:52
above suggestion is reasonable, but still just delays the time until people get dreads
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-10-26 01:10
just bring back the mods lol everyone flew the small ships cause they could mod them and if you remmber it cost CREDITS to mod the ships. so now that is darkspace income why not bring that back. It would increace the amount of money darkspace would get.
oh and about the whole missle frigate thing yes it was a good idea but a frigate should not be able to take a dread or station out in just a couple hits. I hate dreads my self dread and stations but cruiser dessie frigate and even scouts cant handle 2 or 3 dreads shoting them. All i wanted them to do with the mf was to lower the damage or make it to were the pd would actually shot the missles.
[ This Message was edited by: Nova Team on 2010-10-26 01:35 ]
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2010-10-26 01:48
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On 2010-10-26 01:10, Nova Team wrote:
just bring back the mods lol everyone flew the small ships cause they could mod them and if you remmber it cost CREDITS to mod the ships. so now that is darkspace income why not bring that back. It would increace the amount of money darkspace would get.
oh and about the whole missle frigate thing yes it was a good idea but a frigate should not be able to take a dread or station out in just a couple hits. I hate dreads my self dread and stations but cruiser dessie frigate and even scouts cant handle 2 or 3 dreads shoting them. All i wanted them to do with the mf was to lower the damage or make it to were the pd would actually shot the missles.
[ This Message was edited by: Nova Team on 2010-10-26 01:35 ]
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it was not a frig it was a group like 5 missle frigs and a supply in a group working together
[ This Message was edited by: *soulless *TO* on 2010-10-26 02:02 ]
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Ham&Swiss
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 418
From: 10$ to whoever finds me
| Posted: 2010-10-26 03:30
+1 to Ent's post. It's waaay too easy to rank up nowa days. Plus, if it was harder for new people to use bigger ships, we'd be like every other game out there...In WoW do you get to use high lvl equip when you just start out? (I don't actually know 'cause i wouldn't touch that game with a 10 ft pole, but an example was needed >.>)
H&S
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-10-26 09:52
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On 2010-10-25 18:05, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Ramping up the ranks
-will render many peoples' garages half or 3/4 useless, only delays problem until everyone has that rank, again. And if we keep delaying ranks like that eventually it will be way too hard for new players to catch up
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Wow.. just like it was supposed to be?
It took me a long time to get Gold Star when I started, and nobody complained then. So your garage is useless? Maybe if they had made it a challenge in a first place, their garages would be filled with smaller ships rather than nothing but big ones.
Maybe if it took some time between getting cruisers and getting dreadnaughts, their firepower would be appreciated more, and perhaps gangs of small ships would actually be appealing?
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ramping up the badges
-mostly same as above, and many badges are harder to get than you think, bombing is so slow i made 20 bombing pres for nuking a planet, and few people have 500 caps. will discourage many new players. Also so we have to jump 5000 times to fly a ship?
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Games are not supposed to be easy. This is why time = difficulty. Really want that one badge for that one ship? Work for it. Work. For. It. Instead of just giving it away because it might make people who can't stand to invest time into a game leave, make it worth something. Maybe we'll see something other than the same Station/Dread battle over Fargo Rock.
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for the topic: you assume no res loss, but how many time have you been killed in a support craft? At least 1/4 at the very least is from getting killed in a support ship, and they lose very little so I'd say at the very least that's alot.
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How much is a support craft worth? Not very much. This is why I reduced the proposal to a factor of five to include the inevitability of res loss. If you were perfect and never died, you would have Gold Star at halfway to FA. But chances are, you probably died along the way. So its more likely you'll have Gold Star at FA if you don't suck and GA if you do. I think thats fair.
Why you might ask? Because the worth of badges for a ship of a certain rank should be at least proportional to the prestige required for that ship. It makes zero sense for a ship to have the prestige requirement of GA but only have the badge requirements of a person at 1RA. That is blatantly disproportionate and imbalanced.
I want to point something else out about small ships: They don't suck. They just suck alone. This is why you see Dreads and Stations because they don't suck even if they are alone. With small ships, you need teamwork.
Lets just face it, nobody is going to fly a small ship unless they have to because its easier to gain 2k prestige in a Dreadnaught than it is in a cruiser. Which is perfectly fine, sure, you earned it. But it should be earned is my point. You should not be able to fly a ship that is capable of gaining so much prestige with so little effort to aquire it. Period. I don't care if its dreadspace anymore - as long as the people who flew those dreads put in the time and the effort to aquire them.
People talk about their right to fly big ships and I'm okay with that, but I think people should have to earn that right. Prestige gain is a little unbalanced when it comes to combat and you don't get nearly enough from supporting roles its true, and those things need tweaked. But right now, the single biggest solution to the overpopulation of larger ships and the patheticly easy way to aquire them needs to be changed sooner rather than later.
Will people lose access to ships? Yes. But it wont be the first time rank and badge requirements have changed and it wont be the last. Don't let the threat of a few people ragequitting prevent a fix to a long standing issue. They might have "earned it" because thats the way it is now, but its not saying much when earning it requires so little effort to begin with now does it? The only they they're losing is a ship they haven't put in the time or effort to deserve flying. I mean comon, a ship that can net you 2k prestige an hour? Yeah. Make it worth it.
Would I support even higher badge requiremenets for big ships? Hell yes. They are meant to be rare. They should be rare. They should be the ships flown by people who have put a years worth of consistent play time into their profile and have put in the dedication and can apply their experience properly to these massive, powerful ships. If I could propose what I personally feel is right, I think bronze should be at 500, silver at 5k, and gold at 10k. Sounds steep? Sounds draconian? How about the fact that added up, the prestige is about GA?
So to argue against that, is essentially proposing that the prestige requirement for GA is too steep. Is it? No. Does it mean if you want Gold Star you're going to have to get out of that same ship you fly everyday? Does that mean that when a support ship is needed, you actually have incentive to get one? Yes. Yes. And yes. Supporting roles should be increased, they're as much a part of the game as combat is, but you almost never see a person fly a supply ship because there is no reason to. Now there is.
TLDR: Big powerful ships should be worth in badges as much as prestige, not just prestige. Badges have been overlooked too long in the badge aquirement process and a serious revamp is necccesary to apply and better contribute to the advancement system in Darkspace.
-Ent
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-10-26 12:07
A few more solid points to make
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On 2010-10-25 16:49, Botji wrote:
Personally i think it its just 2 areas that need changes to make Darkspace much more balanced both between ships and races.
1. Nerf repair rate a bit and make depos on planet turn off when planet is under blockade OR make it so ships cant get repaired for x seconds after taking damage so you cant be fully repaired while the whole ship is exploding at the same time.
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Absolutely agree with this 100%. Any one of these options are fantastic.
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2. Dreads and stations drop all or almost all their lasers, without them smaller ships and missiles are effective against them. Preferably the core weapons would also lose some speed so they wont be as good against smaller ships.
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I think the only lasers Dreads and Staitons should have are Heavy Lasers. The rest of their lasers should be dropped.
As with Core Weapons being slower, absolutely. They should be anti-captial ship weapons, not just faster pcannons with four times the firepower.
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ICC has 1 dedicated destroyer full of lasers just for missile/scout def and UGTO has both a frigate and a destroyer for the same purpose, perhaps time to put them to use?
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Exactly.
-Ent
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OneBoredSith
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 18, 2010
Posts: 17
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2010-10-28 08:28
perhaps the properties of the garage(for ships) need to change, such as like rework the properties of garage space, not the max amount of ships it can hold, but but how much space it can accommodate. e.g in a garage space of 10x20, how many scout/frigate/dessie/cruiser/dreads/station can u fit in if each of the corresponding ship types takes up 1x1/1x2/2x4/4x8/5x10/10x10?
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-10-28 09:07
Yeah, Deathblave has an idea. There's a thought.
How abt the smaller ships getting some customizable slots?
Dreads n station get none. Static designs.
Cruisers get 2 customizable slots.
Dessies get 4. Frigs n scouts 5.
Supp ships get 3.
Will that then make smaller ships more attractive?
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2010-10-28 09:13 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-10-28 20:15
I never said my garage would be useless, i still have small ships there but not enough space to fit support ships. If we did make it a challenge to get these badges, ill repeat it again, it will only delay the time until everyone goes: BOOYA I GOT THE BADGES!!! and we return to this current state.
You propose to delay rather than attack the heart of the problem, and all delaying will do is lower the player base and increase quit rate. How many hardcore gamers play this game? Like 30 at max. They will stay and rank up and flourish. But that guy who just joined? Probably not. You did it because you were dedicated but many new people who join last a day or 2 before quiting, others stay and try to learn. Many keep on going at the prospect of one day piloting a larger ship. They aren't hardcore enough to stay if that dream is delayed by a factor of 5.
The above will turn into a cycle, eventually with the same ratio of ship classes as now but with a smaller player base, i don't care if you did it i care if new people want to do it. Darkspace gets new players at a rate a lot higher than i imagined, but we lose players just as fast.
Also you say time=difficulty and to "work for that badge". Yes you indeed put a hardcap time limit by requiring 5000 jumps for gold navigator. And you promote raising it higher. Also i play this game for action and pvp, if i want grinding for a badge day and night, 1 planet 20 bombing pres, i'll take a mmorpg any day. And thos that do "work" for it will result into this:
Tranny rushing to meet that 500 cap. Farming to meet that combat cap for new players. Defacing buildings with higher pres structures at the cost of an effective planet. Probably will increase exploiting and some cheap tactics by a factor of 5.
Yes indeed a support craft is not worth much. So tell me how did i lose that couple hundred thousand/one million res to it? Also another question: is darkspace a combat game or a space empire sim with only 1 ship? you "propose" to get to ga on equal ammounts of everything. Tell me who here has an equal ammount of everything? People may meet the reqs because they played for a couple years, but do they have equal prestige everywhere?
Also a big mistake. Implementing before support roles tweaked. Also known as nerf first compensation later. Last time we did it was the res update. We made it require res to spawn, 25% value to respawn somewhere else. Mining was slow and cargo was limited because ships didn't req res. The result: actual rage quitting, not the few people rage quitting, not the empty threats. Actual Ragequits. Those who did ragequit never saw the compensations that balanced this update. They didn't see faster mining, larger res hold, they saw a nerf without any compensations and left. Support pres is almost the same, very very unrewarding. Implement this without boosting support pres rate will end in permanent rage quitting.
Question out of the blue: Why do vets who accomplished everything suddenly want to make it harder knowing with their pres thay will survive the hit?
TLDR: You vets with the pres may want this, but the newbies, the future players, probably don't. People will play a mmorpg if thy wanted to grind every day for a badge, such as tranny, bombing, ship cap, navigation. Might increase dirty or cheap tactics or exploitations by "a factor of 5" Implementing this without compensation will result in massive ragequits.
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