| Author |
Tranny-rushing |
Kaoschan
Fleet Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: October 11, 2008
Posts: 133
From: Germany
|  Posted: 2010-07-04 09:03
or "How to cap a planet without hardships"
[sarcasm]
It's OP! nerf it!!!
[/sarcasm]
ok joke aside, back to topic.
What does it need to transport-rush?
1) At least 1 person or more with a transport
2) If your capping a Server where your faction got no SY, a garage with as many transports as possible.
3) One or more planets with enough infantry or enough barracks
4) If your alone, a bit time, if you got a group, almost no time.
5) If you are K'luth than you can do it alone with your cloak
6) If the Planet got no Dictor, it's almost a 100% success
ICC do it, UGTO do it, K'luth do it.
Tranny rushing a planet (and it doesn't matter if the planet has many well placed Bases for best defence) is the easiest and fastest and savest way to capture a Planet. Why?
A pilot who can navigate a bit and evade a lot of missiles and projectiles until he reaches the surface of a planet will have almost no problems rushign a planet on his own, without loosing his ship. and after a bit of time the whole planet in it's current state will be captures.
Blindly flying a transport ship almost into a planet and dropping the infantry at the last second so that the superior point-defence-beams of the bases dont have time to track and shoot the pods down.
Repeat this process until the planet turns green.
where is the fun? where is the hardship? where is the real teamwork?
This tactic can even be used if enemy ships guard the planet if you have enough transports ready.
Yes everyone uses it, but i think it's enough. Why should planets be built up with defences, if the enemy most likely (with a chance of 95+%) will tranny rush a planet if he sees that the planet has too much bases?
Is bombing to hard for players? does it take too long? or are defence bases to strong? (or got too much PD-beams?) in order to bomb successfully? or everything from above?
Please tell me dear guys and girls why alsmost all people only resort to tranny rushing instead of trying to bomb a planet before dropping infantry?
And it doesn't stop at planets, ship capture during fights are the same.
Just rush "under" your enemy and drop the infantry into him, without even the slightest chance to shoot them down.
Please keep your troll/rant/flamng at the door. I want to collect possilbe Solutions for this problem called "constant tranny rushing", try thinking about the whole System of "Bomb and Capture" palnets/ships.
Suggestions (WiP)
Add a minimum range for drop pods.
planets
- minimum range from planet core? or from the surface? what will happen if you "aim" at the backside of a palnet and let inf "crash" into the frontside.
- If the minium range is meassured from the planet core, it will be almost uses, beacuse most planets are big enough that the surface is several 100 gu "away" from the core.
ships - minimum range the same as planets? (or can it be changed in the code to add different minimum ranges depending on the "target" type?)
pro:
- tranny rushing will be very hard
- shifts the focus more towards bombing and teamplay (ecm ship anyone?)
- instant drop onto enemy ships not possible anymore, give them a chance to shoot down/outrun the pods.
contra:
- heavily fortified planets are very hard to take down
- defence bases perhaps too strong (too much PD-beams?) and will shoot down all pods?
- reducing the value of a Transport-ship?
Make it that Infantry can only be dropped if you orbit a planet
pro:
- tranny rushing will be very very hard
- close surface-drops will be dangerours, beacuse the focus fire from the def bases will, most likly, kill the transport before or after it dropped
- gives the bases enough time to shoot down the pods
contra:
- defence bases perhaps too strong (too much PD-beams?) and will shoot down all pods?
- tranny rushing becomes a suicid run if the planet has a dictor field (without a field, you can jump at 0 gu speed and land in a distance to instant-orbit a planet)
[sarcasm]
yes i'm QQ ... QQ'ing
[/sarcasm]
/discuss
[ This Message was edited by: Kaoschan on 2010-07-04 09:23 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-07-04 09:56
Tranny rushing is something the development staff didn't account for, and do not want in it's current form. It will be addressed in a future update along with other planetary features.
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Kaoschan
Fleet Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: October 11, 2008
Posts: 133
From: Germany
| Posted: 2010-07-04 10:07
Quote:
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On 2010-07-04 09:56, BackSlash wrote:
Tranny rushing is something the development staff didn't account for, and do not want in it's current form. It will be addressed in a future update along with other planetary features.
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thank you for your hard work dear devs
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-07-04 11:11
There would be less tranny rushing if the internet was faster. Because the internet is so slow, it creates issues with bombing a lot of times. So until the internet has been sped up considerably to meet the demand of DS' taxing server, tranny rushing is the only way to make sure that some type of damage is done.
shot thru with sarcasm
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2010-07-04 11:48
Tranny rushing has been in place for a very long time (when you look at the history of the game). Once upon a time, you couldn't add beyond the base 32 troops that could be on a planet. Mainly this just meant you had to start out by bombing before you could add anything to it...or wait for an enemy to strip their own planet so you could add yours.
I don't really see Tranny rushing as bad and there are tactical defenses such as simply extending their time and distance on their final sprint to the target with an interdictor unit.
I don't think I'd mind seeing it get a little harder, but certainly not stripped out completely. We're not in the habit of making it so there's only one approved method to complete in-game tasks...let players be ingenious and find ways that work within the system that aren't exploits.
{edit for grammar}
[ This Message was edited by: Fornax on 2010-07-05 16:20 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-07-04 12:44
I actually enjoy bombing on the rare occasion I'm not desynched to hell and am actually able to do it. Hell, I'm fine just providing ECM cover but it seems like most people don't want to bother bombing and just rush with transports because it's easier.
My suggestions would be change how bases work slightly, right now there's not much difference between level 1 and level 2 bases of the same type aside from level 2s doing more damage. If it was me I'd have level 1 and level 2 bases have the same resource, worker, and power requirements but have the level 1s more defensive and level 2 more offensive. Cruiser level weapons for L1 bases and Dreadnought level weapons for L2 bases.
PD bases seem fine as they are for the most part, the difference in beam types between L1 and L2 bases would make L1s much more suited to shooting down bombs and drop pods but less effective for killing ships with the reverse true for L2 bases.
Defense bases=More missiles, less beams overall.
Beams, cannons, and Mk1 missiles for level 1, heavy beams but less of them, cannons, and Mk2 missiles for level 2. They seem to have too many beams in general for a "hybrid" base, and not enough missiles to do much good. I'd say 2 AR/IT missiles for each base.
Offense bases=Remove beams, replace with PCM missiles and more cannons.
Cannons and mk1 missiles for level 1, heavy cannons and mk2 missiles for level 2. 2 IT/2 PCM missiles per base, they're offense bases so go for maximum damage output. With this kind of loadout it would make Stations think twice about sitting with their armor ring touching a planet and soaking up fire while Transports fly in underneath them to drop at point blank range.
Offense bases should have no beams, the only disadvantage I can see to using them as they are now is the higher worker/power requirements, otherwise they beat the other types hands down. They can still PD bombs/pods and cause more damage to enemy ships than the other two base types combined.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-07-04 16:20
To stop people from tranny rushing here are some ideas I (and others) have come up with.
1. Armor
Reduce the armor of transports to that of the extractor, making them very weak and easy for planetary defenses to kill, even a decloaking Kluth one. This will make it so you still can drop on a planet but forcing players to bomb the planet first to shut down defenses thus making it safe for the tranny.
2. Bases
Up the power of the defense bases on planets.
OFF 1 should have 1 HCL/AD and cannons/missiles but also give them 1 torpedo.
OFF II should have 2 HCL/AD and its cannons/missiles, but increase its torpedo and cannon count to really make it hurt ships.
DEF I is a pointless base currently, so remove its missile and add a normal cannon (or heavy) to it.
DEF II is a really good balance mix between everything, as such it should have 1 HCL and 1 normal beam with its cannon/missiles. (Kluth DEF II should have a cannon on it as it doesn't have one now).
PD 1, good as is
PD II should have 1 HCL 2 CL and 2 pulse beams (ICC) 1 HCL/AD and 4 beams (UGTO/Kluth)
This should kill tranny rushing altogether and make station rushing a planet difficult with the power of the bases being upped. These changes should be done soon to tie us over until you (devs) can bring in the new system.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2010-07-04 19:24
Quote:
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On 2010-07-04 11:48, Fornax wrote:
Trannying rushing has been in place for a very long time (when you look at the history of the game). Once upon a time, you couldn't add beyond the base 32 troops that could be on a planet. Mainly this just meant you had to start out by bombing before you could add anything to it...or wait for an enemy to strip their own planet so you could add yours.
I don't really see Tranny rushing as bad and there are tactical defenses such as simply extending their time and distance on their final sprint to the target with an interdictor unit.
I don't think I'd mind seeing it get a little harder, but certainly not stripped out completely. We're not in the habit of making it so there's only one approved method to complete in-game tasks...let players be ingenious and find ways that work within the system that aren't exploits.
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This.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2010-07-04 19:29
Planets in MV seem to be over specialized.
In Scenario i often see players build their planet with just 1 or 2 barracks,
as they are used to from MV, then they wonder why sooner or later their planet is captured, often even by AI.
Thats because Scenario is much more tight, many planets in a small place.
So if planets in MV would have like 6 barracks, a single player could
hardly capture it, because on his way back getting infantry, the attacked planet will produce enough new infantry.
With 10 barracks its almost impossible to cap without bombing, unless
4 or 5 players drop together.
Am i wrong?
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-07-04 19:54
ATM i find planets to temporary id like them to be powerful enguf to hold off an attack alone from anything less then a medium sized fleet or ECM equipped bombers
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ADmiraLMaXimus (Bringer of Doom)
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 363
From: Earth
| Posted: 2010-07-04 22:04
I hate tranny rushing!!!! 
Maybe there could be a structure added that needs to be bombed in order to allow enemy to drop infantry... or give the dictor a double duty of not allowing enemy ships to jump and not allowing them to drop and give it more resistance to bombing so it would be something that needs to be done by a group
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-07-04 22:06
In reality, the planets dont mean ANYTHING in the game, other than they are red and give you bomb/cap pres or green and give you build pres. Seriously.
There is no real strategy to them There is no inherant importance to any of them except for the slight bit about the res caps. Ultimately with home systems, the res caps are irrelevant.
Planet capping is what most players do when there is nobody to fight, with a few exceptions.
Tranny rushing is a part of the game as well. The problem is that new players dont like old tactics, but the older players know these tactics as tools, not exploits. To the newbie who is so stinking proud of his poorly built planet that he "wasted" hours building, only to see it fall to a few tranny drops, this seems unfair. The tranny pilot only showed you that it really doesnt matter in the long run.
We've seen beefed up defenses. We've seen bombing nerfed to spitballs. We've seen trannies beat to smithereens with nerf bats. Yet the tranny remains a reliable, viable tool when attacking a planet.
And why shouldnt it? Its a TRANSPORT. Its for transporting TROOPS. Its made to attack planets. Its not a freaking pleasure cruiser. Its a lower class warship.
Yet the QQs will soon have the devs reaching for the nerf bats again.
Too bad they cant nerf the minds behind the monitors, eh?
Two people swing a hammer and pound in nails. Yet one is a master carpenter, one is a green horn nub. Thats the situation in DS atm. Everyone has the same tools to use, yet some are simply better and more adept at using those tools.
I guess we just need a labor union to ensure we are all equalized to the weakest common denominator.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-05 03:03
Currently, friendly troop capacity limits on planets are set at 32.
From there, how many more invading inf can the enemy drop up to?
32 too for a total of 64?
If you set the absolute max troop capacity at 48 (+16), that would mean that tranny rushing would immediately become much more difficult.
You could have 3 trannies going in with 10 troops apiece and it wouldn't matter, because after Tranny 1 unloads, Tranny 2 can only offload 6 troops, and Tranny 3 has to turn back with a full load.
32 vs 16.... not much chance that you're gonna take the planet over unless you have very nasty Elites. Otherwise yer gonna make the occupiers Elites instead.
There, you now have to bomb and wipe out at least 1/4 of his troops before you can have an even ground war.
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2010-07-05 03:13
You still have to remember that palestar is still in the process of making DSA, then everything will change.
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Schroedingers Gun
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 24, 2010
Posts: 99
From: favour6
| Posted: 2010-07-05 03:38
Quote:
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On 2010-07-04 22:06, Azreal wrote:
In reality, the planets dont mean ANYTHING in the game, other than they are red and give you bomb/cap pres or green and give you build pres. Seriously.
There is no real strategy to them There is no inherant importance to any of them except for the slight bit about the res caps. Ultimately with home systems, the res caps are irrelevant.
Planet capping is what most players do when there is nobody to fight, with a few exceptions.
Tranny rushing is a part of the game as well. The problem is that new players dont like old tactics, but the older players know these tactics as tools, not exploits. To the newbie who is so stinking proud of his poorly built planet that he "wasted" hours building, only to see it fall to a few tranny drops, this seems unfair. The tranny pilot only showed you that it really doesnt matter in the long run.
We've seen beefed up defenses. We've seen bombing nerfed to spitballs. We've seen trannies beat to smithereens with nerf bats. Yet the tranny remains a reliable, viable tool when attacking a planet.
And why shouldnt it? Its a TRANSPORT. Its for transporting TROOPS. Its made to attack planets. Its not a freaking pleasure cruiser. Its a lower class warship.
Yet the QQs will soon have the devs reaching for the nerf bats again.
Too bad they cant nerf the minds behind the monitors, eh?
Two people swing a hammer and pound in nails. Yet one is a master carpenter, one is a green horn nub. Thats the situation in DS atm. Everyone has the same tools to use, yet some are simply better and more adept at using those tools.
I guess we just need a labor union to ensure we are all equalized to the weakest common denominator.
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and the same can be said for the older players too, with the new things. but, with out trannyrushing ICC would have no SS as we need gold tranny to, soif they take away tranny rushing take the gold transport badge need from the ICC SS. its made worse by the fact that capping a planet isn't always 1 planer cap pres ive had as little as 0.1 pres for a planet cap
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